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Author Topic: Rew's Smash Bros. Run!  (Read 530 times)
Offline Rew

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« on: December 21, 2011 »

I have played and completed all games in the Zelda series and played through a great many in the Metroid series.

Now with my office closed for the holiday break, I'm going to embark on the Super Smash Bros. series!

Most people play these games because they enjoy competing against other gamers, either in person (esp. on N64 and Melee) and online (i.e. Brawl). But me, I've always been a singleplayer kind of gamer. And what's attracted me to the SSB series is all the many collectibles to obtain, features to unlock, and the massive amounts of nostalgia and game series nods that are what Smash Bros. is all about.

The series is extremely straightforward: three games. I'll play them each in order and attain 100% completion, blogging about my experiences with each game afterward. With the original, this will take me no time at all. Melee will be considerably longer. And Brawl will take so insanely long that I might need to blog intermittently about it as I'm playing through it instead of waiting all the way until I finish. But I'll cross that bridge when I come to it.
- Super Smash Bros. (1999) on VC
- Super Smash Bros. Melee (2001) on GCN
- Super Smash Bros. Brawl (2008) on Wii

So up first is the original Super Smash Bros.

This game was clearly designed for more than one player, so as a single player, there isn't much to do. So this shouldn't take too long. Four characters to unlock, one stage, and a couple other features. It's pretty rudimentary but keeps your attention. Depending on when I start it (either tonight or tomorrow), I should have a write-up before Christmas I would imagine, if holiday plans don't overtake me. =P
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Offline hisak

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« #1 on: December 21, 2011 »

Sounds like fun! Smash Bros. 64 doesn't seem like it'd be very well-suited to this type of thing since it's basically an arcade game, but who knows? Looking forward to reading this.
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Offline Rew

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« #2 on: December 23, 2011 »

@hisak: Yeah, Smash 64 went by very quickly. It was definitely designed to be a party game, not much else.


So yeah, just like that, I'm done with the original Smash Bros.

At first I went about unlocking the other four characters. Jigglypuff was effortless of course (just beat 1P mode, any difficulty). Then I went after Capt. Falcon, where you have to beat 1P in 20 minutes or less. Using Fox on Very Easy, it was, well, pretty easy. (You basically have to finish each battle in under 2 minutes.) Next was Ness, where you had to complete Normal with 3 stocks, no continues. This was a bit more tense, and I suffered a stupid death against Samus because when I had her almost defeated, she got a Heart Container and replenished her health back from 100+% to 0%! Still, I surprised myself by beating Fighting Polygon Team and Master Hand without losing any stocks, so it was all good.

Then it was on to the Practice Bonus rounds: Break the Targets and Board the Platforms. Some of these could be VICIOUSLY difficult, much more so than anything the 1P mode will throw at you, even on Very Hard. I had enormous trouble especially with Fox's--there's that one target in the upper left corner that you have to get by either double jumping from the narrow wall, then hoping you can Up-B it (normally I don't have the height) or getting on top of that alcove, going down and around back up. But the worst was the last target for Fox, going back and forth over a bottomless pit and requiring a perfectly timed Up-B turned sideways to get it. (Note that beating all eight Target levels with the original characters unlocks Luigi.)

Then there's Board the Platforms. I love the concept, but most of the stages can get horribly annoying. There's Jigglypuff's stage where you have to make those multiple A-B-A-B jumps to get to the final platform. There's Luigi's where you have to make a terribly awkward jump for the final platform in the lower corner, falling down, jumping back up under the platform and using Up-B and hoping Luigi doesn't jump completely over it as he normally does for me. But the absolute most nightmarish was Ness's stage. Oh god, PK Thunder. I suck at that shit. I was probably stuck on his platform stage for a good hour before finally acquiring enough skill/luck to beat it.

From what I remember, it only gets worse in Melee and Brawl. I'm not looking forward to having to do target tests AND having to finish them under a certain time to unlock various trophies!

Anyway, clearing all targets, platforms, and 1P mode with all characters unlocks Mushroom Kingdom and the Sound Test. I also played 100 vs. matches very quickly (using DK to 1HKO a level 1 CPU) to unlock Item Switch. And that's the entirety of the game.


So, moving on to Super Smash Bros. Melee!

This will be both much harder and far more time-consuming than the original. I'm going to be lame and unlock all characters with 1000 vs. matches--because you have to play that many to unlock other things anyway, so I might as well. Then I'll pursue the trophies and stages, beating Classic, All-Star, and Adventure Modes, unlocking and clearing Event Matches.

And yes, I'm even going to obtain ALL the bonus records to unlock the Diskun trophy, God help me.

One thing I won't be doing is obtaining all notices--if for no other reason than I'm just not going to sit down and play 1 MILLION vs. matches. Not happening.

For the trophy lottery thing, I'm going to need tons of coins, though. I know how to farm for coins pretty reliably in Brawl but not in Melee. Does anyone have any coin farming strategies for Melee?

Let me know. In the meantime, I'm going to start the game tomorrow, but it could be a while before I'm finished. A couple weeks maybe? We'll see.
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Offline Rew

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« #3 on: January 09, 2012 »

Well, it took a while, but Melee is finally finished!

Of the three, Melee is generally considered the hardest of the Smash Bros. games to unlock everything 100%. I can certainly agree with that affirmation, even though Brawl will take me considerably longer.

So I started out by playing a thousand Vs. matches, which took me all day. (If you set a level-9 Ness to the 2P position and go to Jungle Japes, he immediately SDs every single time.) I did this to unlock all characters the easy way. I would've challenged myself more on this, but this was also the only way to obtain the Food trophy, so I figured I might as well. In retrospect, I should've combined this with the Score Display unlock (which needs 5000 KOs) and Smash Coin trophy (requires 100 coin matches).

The Event Matches went swimmingly. Some are embarrassingly easy (such as the one where you have to defeat Capt. Falcon in 7 seconds--simply choose the Captain as your player, press B, win), while others are excruciatingly difficult. I was very surprised that I beat the doctor's checkup event on my first try! (It helps to go off the ledge in an attempt to get Dr. Mario to SD.) The "Cold Armor" event always tripped me up in the past, but I found that getting to one of the hovering islands below the stage is a great way to trick some of the Metal Samuses into killing themselves. No such tricks on "Space Adventurers" as you just have to be bloody good with Ness against five very difficult foes (well, Fox, Falcon, and Falco are tough).

Event 51 is the grand finale for very good reason. That shit is HARD! Giga Bowser (with 3 stocks) plus Mewtwo and Ganondorf with 3 stocks each (and they seem to fight like level 9 CPUs). I had to use Jigglypuff's Rest, or I had no chance against the Gigs. Once I eliminated him, I was normally down to 1 or 2 stocks left myself, which left a very daunting battle against the other two. For them, I just kept spamming Jigglypuff's special rolling move (and sometimes rolling right off the stage). After attempt after attempt after attempt, when I finally eliminated Mewtwo on one run, I found that doing so to Ganondorf (only one opponent) proved quite easy. And so it was that I beat all events and unlocked all stages!

It was remarkable how tedious it became going through all three 1P modes with each and every character in order to unlock all their trophies. I love Adventure Mode, but it gets old after the 20th go-round! This was nice for gathering up many trophies, bonuses, and some coins too.

Oh, and in answer to my own previous question, I found that the best way to farm for coins is lots of dash-dancing. For some reason, it doesn't get you very many in Versus matches, but you'll get a bunch in 1P. Go to the end of the first stage in Adventure and just dash-dance the remaining 5-6 minutes, then cross the goal line. You'll get 15-17 coins from this every time. I even found you can enter a Target Test stage and just dash-dance for coinage as long as you can stand it.

Anyway, you really only need 1000 coins to unlock everything in the game. The max you can hold at one time is 999. Acquiring 1000 unlocks the Tom Nook trophy. After that, you'll need 200-300 for continues to obtain the Very-Hard Clear bonus and to get the trophy (Mew?) from clearing All-Star on Hard. After that, you can blow all the rest on the Lottery to get the remaining randomized trophies. What I like about Melee (in contrast to Brawl) is you can control the likelihood of getting new trophies by the amount of coins you put in. I pretty much always put in the max amount to make sure all my trophies were brand new. If you run out of coins, just farm for more until you've obtained all the random trophies.

By this point, I only had the difficult stuff left. Seemingly the juggernaut of all Melee trophies to obtain is Diskun, which requires attaining all 250-odd special bonuses to unlock. The vast majority of them you'll get just playing through the game and not even realizing you got them. But there are still a fair few that require special effort. Some I couldn't even figure out how to attain at first. Also, thank God that Young Link's down-aerial makes for such an easy meteor strike. Of course, by far the most notorious bonus to attain is "No-Damage Clear"--which has to be done by completing one of the 1P modes all the way, without taking the slightest damage at all.

I tried DK (down-B) and Roy, but soon I found Falco. I took him through Classic (I tried All-Star, but there are simply too many battles and thus too many opportunities for things to go wrong) and spammed his forward smash move. During battles where I had allies, I would keep my distance and let them do all the work (which they do quite effectively on Very Easy!). Fighting against a large team was tricky because you'd have to KO all three on the screen at once or one would take a potshot at you. Anyway, after all this came the climactic duel with Master Hand--easily the hardest part of any no-damage run. But I had beaten Boss Battles on Intense in Brawl back in 2008, and I learned to fight bosses by effectively taking no damage there. So I resumed those lessons here. I would get in a couple quick up smashes or aerials on the Hand, then retreat, ready to dodge or shield an attack. I would also jump and shoot him from a distance as circumstances suited. It took a lot of skill--and luck--but I did it! And the Diskun trophy was mine.

I've always been terrible at the Stadium stuff: Target Test and Home-Run Contest. HRC was a bloody chore just to unlock the Yoshi's Island stage--I just got lucky with Ganondorf. But I would have to hit it even farther to get the Paper Mario trophy. I kept trying Yoshi's flutter kick, but it just wasn't working for me. I tried with Ganondorf again and landed on a pretty sound strategy: Up-smash, double jump + down-air (as you're level with it to ensure it's driven into the ground, not upward), up-smash again, another double jump + down-air as before, grab the bat, then smash attack with the bat. It took me many tries, but once I landed on this strategy, I got 1500+ yards out of it, enough for the trophy! After that it was a simple matter of using all the other characters (an average of 600-700 yards each) to unlock another trophy.

Then there was Target Test, something of a mortal weakness for me. I hate speedrunning. I HATE IT. Just clearing all levels with each character wasn't so bad, except for a few like Pichu, Dr. Mario, and especially Young Link--even after you figure out how to wall-jump out of that initial chasm, his targets are bloody hard to hit. I kept pausing on the latter two, so I had some outrageous time by the time I cleared all Target Test levels. (Another thing--I really hate how Target Test continues to time you EVEN WHILE PAUSED.) I got the Lon Lon Milk trophy (combined time of 25 minutes) rather easily when I trimmed Young Link's time from a whopping 4 minutes to under 1 minute. But getting the Sheriff trophy (combined time of 12.5 minutes) was hard as fuck. I had to redo Dr. Mario's stage numerous times, I had a miracle run on Pichu's stage, Capt. Falcon's stage gave me all sorts of fits. I had to use nearly everyone to lower their times. Finally, once I used Sheik to trim her relatively easy stage down, I was able to procure the blasted trophy at last.

There are three trophies of Wire Frames that must be obtained from Multi-Man Melee. One is gotten by surviving 15-Minute Melee. Oh, how I hated this. It didn't turn out to be much trouble when I found the right strategy: Use Mewtwo and charge up his B attack. Any opponents who come near you will be repelled by it and unable to touch you. (This isn't fool-proof but fairly close to it.) It's just nerve-wracking sitting there watching the timer tick down oh so slowly. Another trophy is gotten through Cruel Melee, which is exactly what it says on the tin. The only way I found to KO the requisite 5 Wire Frames was Roy's up-B move. I just kept doing it until I got on a lucky run that KO'd 5. It definitely took me many tries! The other was gotten...through 100-Man Melee? 100 KOs in Endless Melee? I don't know, but both were easy with DK's down-B spam.

Then there are three more trophies of SSBM boss characters: Giga Bowser, Master Hand, and Crazy Hand. I went after Giga first: Clear Adventure on Normal (or harder) in under 18 minutes without using a continue. Then after defeating Giant Bowser at the end, you face off against Giga Bowser, who is hella awesome and a damned tough opponent. I used my main Roy (his forward smash and up-B are downright godly), and thankfully I had plenty of stocks left when I got to Giga because boy did I need them. For Master Hand, you have to clear Classic on Hard without continuing. This took me a few tries--mainly because I accidentally unlocked the Crazy Hand battle at the end! That killed me almost instantly. So the trick here is taking your time going through the Classic battles. (It helps that you'll have at least one opponent who plays keep-away from you the whole battle.) I got this one without too much trouble.

But the Crazy Hand trophy was another matter altogether. For that you have to beat Adventure on Hard, with no continues. Adventure is a lot longer and more involved than Classic! I took Roy as usual, all ready to go. I got my ass handed to me. I decided to wait this one out until the end of my Melee run.

So it eventually just came down to that. Crazy Hand was the last trophy for me to obtain (aside from Captain Olimar--more on that in a bit). So it was time just to do it. I tried this thing over and over and over--probably more than anything else I tried in the entire game. There was one epic run where I made it all the way to the Kirbys without losing a single stock. But my luck was too good--for the first and only time, I KO'd all the Kirbys (Roy's up-B is positively devastating in these team battles) too fast...and unlocked the Giant Kirby fight. Well, there went one stock. I lost two more against the Pokemon team (this pretty much always happens) and the last two when I made it all the way to Giant Bowser (he always KOs me at least 2 times, sometimes 3). I didn't even get close on subsequent attempts.

Finally, there came a run that began like most such runs do. Roy made his nimble way through the Mushroom Kingdom stage, up-B'd the Yoshis into oblivion, then lost a stock on the subsequent Mario/Peach fight. It's profoundly rare I escape that fight unscathed. So I solidered on, conquered both DK levels, then got lucky in the Underground Maze and found the exit on my second go. (I of course waited there so as not to draw Giga Bowser later.) Zelda/Sheik had me on the ropes, but I used a Remote-Sensor Bomb (which she almost always walks over) to KO her. I had an uncannily good battle against Samus (who normally KOs me once too) and got lucky to get out of that one without a death. I escaped Brinstar, then took out Kirby. Against Team Kirby, I made sure not to draw Giant Kirby this time--which wasn't necessary since I actually lost a stock against them anyway. I breezed through Corneria as usual. Then it was time for Pokemon Stadium.

That was when this run started to turn downright magical. For the first and only time ever, I made it through this horrible battle without losing a single stock. I was accurate with Roy's up-B, never failing to take out at least 1 Pokemon with each go. I got lucky on the Poke Balls and drew some of the legendaries. Granted, I was at 200% damage by the time it was over, but no falls! I sped through the F-Zero stage, then had another magical battle against Capt. Falcon (who normally owns the shit out of me). All of Roy's smash attacks hit home, then when Falcon was recovering back to the stage, a Poke Ball fell. I popped it open, and out came Scizor, who sent Falcon off the top of the screen. I survived with 0% damage, almost unheard of. At Onett, the Nesses fought me more aggressively than usual, which caused me to alter my strategy, but I still got through with no losses. I climbed up Icicle Mountain, KO'd both pairs of Ice Climbers, owned the Wire Frame team at Battlefield, then used forward smash against the Metal Bros. repeatedly until they were forced off the stage, unable to recover.

So I had three stocks going into the Giant Bowser battle. All looked well. I knew I always lost two to him, so if I could just survive to KO him on my final stock. Well, it was unnecessary. I don't even remember the battle or what I did, but I managed to KO him after losing only one stock--I still had two left!

Now the final "challenge" was obtaining the Captain Olimar trophy, which required save data on the GCN memory card from the game Pikmin. Well, my first mistake was probably waiting until after Christmas to look for the blasted 10-year-old game. The local flea market/shop didn't have it, so I went to Amazon (assuming GameStop doesn't carry GCN games anymore). I found a seller with a 5-star rating shipping from NJ (only a few states away from me) and ordered. Then the email invoice arrived...totally in German. The game was shipping from ruddy Germany. That served me right for not actually reading the user reviews, where a few people complained of this same thing (along with how long their product took to arrive). I had no idea if I'd be getting the PAL version (unusable) or NTSC version. I asked the seller, but because the "seller" is a large company shipping 6000 products per day, the person on the other end of my email had no idea.

So I waited. Then I finished everything else and got sick of waiting. I found out GameStop still does carry GCN games, so I picked up a pre-owned copy of Pikmin this weekend and finished the deal. (It was a good thing I did--I got my package today, and Pikmin is the PAL version and entirely in GERMAN. I will be requesting a full refund.) I then used Action Replay to get the Japan-only trophies of Mario & Yoshi, Samus Unmasked, and Tamagon.

And that concludes Melee. It was an improvement over Smash 64 in every conceivable way: more to do, more characters, stages, the addition of trophies, etc. The original had one music for each stage, the most obvious theme for the particular franchise, and the new music was just uninspired filler. Melee added all sorts of musical themes for each franchise, and even its original music (like for the menu screens, Battlefield, etc.) were memorable in their own right. The interface was also vastly improved, and Adventure and All-Star modes would've been more awesome if I didn't have to trudge through them dozens of times. Event Matches and trophies were probably the most incredible additions. What I really didn't understand, however, was allowing C-stick smash attacks in Vs. modes but not in 1P modes. I grew really used to that from playing Brawl a few years ago! Speaking of which...


So now that leaves only Super Smash Bros. Brawl!

Among Melee die-hards, this game gets a lot of flack, but since I'm not into the competitive scene, most of the criticisms don't deter me. (Though I do hate random tripping as a feature.) I played through Brawl when it first came out in '08, so I've accomplished most of this stuff before. Still, this is a grand, epic game. It's also probably the longest game I've played, outlasting any Zelda adventure. As such, I don't know when I'll be back to post my thoughts. I might have to post them in intervals as I'm making my way through. Knowing me, though, I'll probably be too lazy or eager to get on with it and wait until I've finished everything. And there is a LOT this time: almost twice as many trophies as in Melee, 700 stickers, and an Adventure mode that could be a full platform/fighting game all by itself (which has to be completed multiple times to obtain everything).

But I can't wait!
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Offline Hyruleansoldier

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« #4 on: January 10, 2012 »

Wow, some epic adventures you endured!

Some questions emerge:

1) Did you do your run of Melee on a different memory card, or did you really just delete your entire save file for SSB (N64,) SSBM and SSBB?  It would be a bit sad to see all those wonderful statistics disappear.

Also, I would never want to have to acquire all 700 stickers again in Brawl.  In fact, I still need to do that since my original save file was lost. 

2) Do those typical conveyer belt-type Sticker Factories really work best to get them all?  I thought some of them - the rarer ones - were better procured from killing some bosses in SSEmissary.

3) What's dash dancing?

4) And random tripping?

I wish you much fun and luck with Brawl - fortunately most unlockables are sensible.   Boss Battle on Very Hard however is still hard as fuck.  I did it the first time, but since I lost my savefile I havent' been able to pull it off again.  It really all comes down to being successful at dodging Tabuu's (or what's his name) 3 circular waves of death twice.
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Offline Rew

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« #5 on: February 10, 2012 »

@HS:

1) Yeah, I deleted everything on all three games to give them a fresh start from scratch each. I had a few stats in there, but nothing I was particularly attached to or that I couldn't obtain again.

2) I found the sticker factory ideal. There were some noticeably rare ones that I got from clobbering Duon over and over while farming coins for trophies--but I suspect I could've gotten them also had I spent enough time in a sticker factory.

3) Smash the control stick to make your character dash (but you already know this). Yet if you smash the control stick back and forth like that, your character will dash back and forth in place without actually moving anywhere. You can do this in Melee (in fact, it's a great way to farm for coins since the game measures how many times you dash for some reason), but it's not possible in Brawl.

4) I think the official term is "prat falling." Sometimes when you dash, instead of dashing, your character will just fall over. It thankfully almost never happens in a do-or-die situation and is fairly infrequent in general. It's mostly Melee die-hards who get worked up over it. Still, I don't see any benefit to it being put in Brawl.


So at long last, Super Smash Bros. Brawl is done! When I first played through the game in the summer of 2008, it literally took me from May to August to get everything (granted, I played it off and on back then rather than every single day). So I'm really glad I finished this one 100% in less than a month (having started on January 10).

My main goal on this one was to clear the entire challenge board without using any Golden Hammers. In 2008, I used all five, but this time I was determined to leave all five alone and unlock them with my own effort and time.

As in Melee, I started with unlocking all characters and stages, which was notably quicker and easier this time around--in Melee, it took 1000 Vs. matches to unlock everybody, whereas in Brawl it took 450, less than half. And while in Melee the hardest stage to unlock was Final Destination (required clearing all 51 Event Matches), none were particularly challenging to obtain in Brawl. The downside was that there was no reward for clearing all the Event Matches in this game except a notice telling you as much.

I did move on to Event Matches next, which tends to be one of my favorite parts of the Smash Bros. series. There were fewer Events this time (41 in Brawl vs. 51 in Melee), but this is made up for by the fact that each Event has three difficulty levels now (Easy, Normal, Hard), and there are 21 Co-op Events if you get a second controller involved. I made sure to play no (Solo) event on Easy. I played them all on Normal, except for the ones that required a victory on Hard to unlock something. Here easily the hardest ones were the Zelda-related ones: the Dark Link battle and then using Ganondorf to defeat Link, Zelda/Sheik, and Pit. Those took try after try after try--and I still think I got lucky when I beat them.

The final event is easily the hardest of them all--even on Normal. Because it was so hard I just set it to Hard and said, "Might as well." I finally found that spamming Pikachu's down-B Thunder move (with some gratuitous down-smash thrown in) proved to be super effective. Still, even with Pika, it took many attempts to clear that one!

A good while later, I went back and cleared all the Events on Hard so that it looked all nice and pretty. A few gave me some major trouble (like the one where you have to use the Dragoon pieces to KO three Warios, as well as when you had to eliminate the Yoshis on the Pirate Ship only in the clouds--and let's not forget the godawful Hanenbow Event), but it wasn't too bad at all overall. I also sought to clear all Co-op Events, but lacking a second player, I simply went through and cleared them all on Easy by myself (I doubt I could do so on Hard without some help). The only trouble spot there was the final Event, which pits you against all thirty-five playable characters with no recovery items or extra stocks! Once again, cheap Pikachu Thunder spam saved the day.

So then it was off to Classic and All-Star modes. This began the rather tedious sequence of clearing these modes not only with all characters but with all *variants* of those characters for those who had alter egos (i.e. Zelda, Samus, Pokemon Trainer--even though this latter only needed to clear All-Star once, thankfully). Ike was my pro for Very Hard, and Pikachu once again came through on Intense. (You don't even need to be all that skilled in Brawl--just spam Pikachu's overpowered moves. I wonder if it was as powerful in Melee? I never used Pika much in that game.)

There was also Stadium mode. Target Smash and Home-Run Contest were much more friendly this time around, which was a godsend because those could get damned annoying in Melee. For Home-Run Contest, I employed the same Ganondorf strategy as in the previous game to unlock the challenge for the longest single-character distance. (Oddly, this is the only strategy that I can remember that works exactly the same from one game to the other.) After that, it was just a matter of getting 1000+ ft. with each character. And unlike in Melee, there is a protective barrier over the platform so you can hit the Sandbag around a lot more.

Target Smash was also made a lot easier, but unfortunately creativity was sacrificed in the process. See, there are only 5 levels of targets to deal with in this game, but that eliminates the neatness of exploring a target stage specifically tailored to each and every character. But for the Brawl versions, it was pretty neat trying to figure out the best strategies on each stage for each character--which got really hairy on Level 4, as there were two hard-to-reach targets suspended over bottomless pits in that one, which presented a definite challenge for a few characters.

As for the timed challenges, Fox was the man in Level 1, using his Laser blast to take care of a few higher targets (esp. that one on the other side of the tiny-gapped wall). For the remaining four levels, it was all Sonic. I got Level 2 on my first try with him. Level 3 presents the most unforgiving time limit of them all, and that was the hardest to succeed with. Level 4 wasn't so bad once I got the pattern and timing of the moving platforms down. Level 5 took some doing, because even though the time limit is more generous, it's still too easy to mess up irreparably and even SD on that stage.

Then we come to Multi-Man Brawl. The 10-Man Brawl is so easy there are no rewards associated with it, ditto for 3-Minute Brawl. If you're capable of winning the 100-Man Brawl even once, with any character, you can then use that character to rack up 100 KOs in Endless Brawl to unlock that challenge. But 15-Minute Brawl is far more daunting. For that I used Jigglypuff, intended to float under the stage until time ran out. The problem with this is that all you have to do is mess up the jump sequence once, and Jiggly SDs, making you have to start all over again. Thankfully I got a Fan early on, so I used that to rapidly tap A repeatedly, which kept the Alloys (even when there were five of them!) away from me all at once. I won, but my fingers were numb afterward!

Cruel Brawl is exactly what it says on the tin. It's downright cruel! You have to KO 10 Alloys this time, and there's no Roy to save the day. So I use Kirby. Hang off a ledge, then float backward, then come back under the stage and use Up-B to recover back to the ledge. The Alloys will follow you, and some will either SD out there or get spiked into the pit by Kirby's Up-B move. It's very tricky, and normall you're going to SD yourself or get roundhouse kicked by an Alloy before you can eliminate 10. But this was my most successful method.

Then there's 100-Man Brawl. Oh dear gods. This wasn't so bad in Melee because you only had to win it once. But in Brawl, there's a trophy (Blue Alloy) that's only obtainable via two methods: using a Golden Hammer or clearing 100-Man Brawl with all characters. The Golden Hammer was out of the question for me on this run (though you'd better believe I used it back in '08!), so that left this little horror. I cleared it for the first time using DK and his Ground Slap easily enough. But for the 3:30 time limit, I called Pikachu for that--I'm telling you, Pikachu is sick in this game!

But doing this with every character was a nightmare. It always starts out easy, but unlike in Melee, you have to face a playable character at the milestones of 75 KOs left, 50, 25, and the last one (who is always a clone of your character). Unlike Alloys, these fighters can shield, use special attacks, projectiles, and (worst of all) items. Then the Alloys become more aggressive the further you go, until there are 25 left, and they're pounding you. At around 10 left, it pretty much becomes Cruel Brawl with how viciously they come after you, get past your defenses, and edgehog like mad. If you're lucky enough (and don't be fooled--this mode is based a lot on luck) to make it to the end, then you'll reach the final character. It'll still be weak like all the others and can be OHKO'd with a powerful attack. But normally you're at 200% damage yourself and can also be KO'd just as easily. This last character can do everything you can do, so it's a true test of nerve.

Anyway, the best strategies were getting a Beamsword (for some serious long-range F-smashes) and especially a Fan. With a Fan, you could hop onto either the right or left platform, throw it up, and all spawning Alloys would die immediately as the Fan would bounce between Alloys. No spawning Alloys? Then just up-tilt or up-smash the approaching Alloys into the Fan. This got me through so many tough spots. Also go for every Poke Ball and Assist Trophy--and do NOT let a Smash character get either one! And lacking any items, the best attack to spam is normally the up-tilt. Maybe the up-smash if you're using a character who's really quick about it, with no lag.

The worst characters for this mode are Captain Falcon, Bowser, and especially Ganondorf. Oh god, Ganondorf. Sure he's powerful--but all his moves are too slow to make use of his power! He's the only character with no real up-tilt, so that removes that crutch. His smash attacks have way too much lag. Thankfully his neutral A attack can almost KO in one hit on its own. But yeah, for him, I had to rely heavily on items--and luck. He was the last character I beat it with. Oh how sweet it was to finally win that damned trophy!

Even though I saved all Events on Hard and the Blue Alloy trophy almost toward the end, I still had a sizeable chunk of the game completed before I even started The Subspace Emissary. This time around, Smash Bros. introduced an Adventure Mode that tried to have its own plot and become its own action platformer game on its own!

I made the dubious decision to run through the entire mode...on Intense. As the default difficulty level for each stage. This was one of the things I'd failed to do in '08--get the notice for clearing all stages of SSE on Intense. (I had managed to achieve it on every stage except one...) The first thing you notice about SSE is that the enemies deal absolutely insane knockback. And I mean nearly every single enemy, including the tiny Mites! And SSE on Intense was harder than Classic and All-Star on Intense, I think because of this.

Most of the stages weren't too bad because each time you enter a door, it's a new checkpoint from which to continue if you run out of stocks. Also, every time you trigger a cutscene (except once >_>), it automatically replenished all your health and stocks! So the hardest stages were the longest ones with the fewest door checkpoints. One of the worst offenders here was The Battlefield Fortress, which featured long stretch after long stretch of nothing but harsh enemy battles. (Some say this is rather appropriate for a Fire Emblem themed stage.) Other stages that were rage inducing were because of the forced battles they had. Early on in the game, at the end of Sea of Clouds is a forced battle with two Greaps! (Those unfair enemies that swing their ultra-powerful sickles around.) The Subspace Bomb Factory II was even worse about this because of the huge melee battle with 50 enemies midway through, punctuated with two Armanks! That was a serious test right there and took me many tries to get past.

The worst stage of all, however--and the one that I couldn't get past on Intense in '08--is Entrance to Subspace. It is one straightshot to the end, with no doors (i.e. no continues or checkpoints). And it is chock full of forced battles against the very hardest enemies in the game: Floows, Metal Primids and Fire Primids, Armanks, Armanks with Giant Primids, Greaps with Giant Primids...the works. Needless to say, this one stage took me a while. But thanks to a team of Fox (whose Up-B is crucial for eliminating the Floows in the beginning), Pikachu (Kirby could work too), Donkey Kong, and Ike, I somehow made it to the end. And how excited I was to see that one door too! My hands were literally shaking afterward.

After that, it was smooth sailing through the other two Subspace stages and finally The Great Maze. The Great Maze is long and challenging, but it's filled with doors and Save Points everywhere--and no forced battles (except the special battles behind the smoking doors obviously). The only real trouble spot I ran into was accidentally reaching the Galleom battle with a team not prepared to take him on. It took me forever and tons of retries because I was too stubborn to backtrack and switch out my "getting through areas fast" team with my "beat the crap out of bosses" team (usually consisting of Charizard and DK). Tabuu himself went down without too much trouble.

Oh, and did I mention I made it all the way through The Subspace Emissary on Intense with no stickers also? =D

I gained 100% on my SSE file too, but I had to go back and revisit some stages for that. When I did that after clearing a stage, I would just switch the difficulty back to Easy so as to breeze through the stage very quickly and get that one golden box or trophy or whatever I missed before--after all, I'd already gotten that Intense logo on that stage already, haha.

Now to unlock all the movies for SSE required at least a second run through the mode. Like hell was I going to do another Intense run through this game! So just as my first file was all Intense, I would make a second one that was all Easy. It certainly made this side-scrolling platformer far more enjoyable just cruising my way through like a bulldozer through whipped cream.

Even after unlocking all movies and gaining a 100% complete file (which I did twice), I wasn't done with it yet! Then I had to go and use a Trophy Stand to capture every single enemy and boss in the game. I'd already done that to a number of enemies just by playing through those first two times. Afterward I had to go after the rest. Naturally, The Great Maze is the most ideal place for getting those common enemies. By far the hardest were Gamyga and especially Armank (who wasn't in The Great Maze, frustratingly enough--I had to go to The Wilds for that one).

But then there were the bosses to trophify. Petey Piranha was easy, and I got him on my first try. Porky, Rayquaza, and Duon weren't too much trouble since they appeared so early in their respective stages. Galleom did too (at The Ruined Hall), but for some reason I had to wait an insanely long time just for a Trophy Stand to drop, even though I was fighting him on Intense. (Trophy Stands drop more frequently the higher the difficulty setting.) He was easy once I got it. Tabuu was naturally very challenging to trophify--but he was nothing compared to the Ridleys!

Except the Ridleys, all bosses can be faced without too much stage crawling. But those two only appear at the end of very long stages. I went after Ridley first. He's easier and does more attacks over the stage itself, even though his default position is unfortunately over the pit. It took some tries, but I got his trophy. The absolute juggernaut, though, was Meta Ridley--who appears at the end of The Subspace Bomb Factory II (one of the longest, hardest stages in the entire game), has a 2-minute time limit during his battle, and he hangs farther and farther out from the platform the less and less health he has. There are only a handful of attacks that bring him back within range of an effective Trophy Stand throw. It seriously took me over 20 tries to get him--including some 5 or 6 repeated treks through that horrendous stage of his! I had the absolute worst luck with this. One time, when he was near death, a Bob-omb appeared. I quickly grabbed and threw it away--and Meta Ridley dove far out of his way directly on it, suiciding himself! It was more a relief than a joy when I finally got that damned trophy.

Even though hisak will hate me forever for saying this, I think I'm one of the few people who actually enjoyed The Subspace Emissary. Granted, the enemies are vastly overpowered (and not just on Intense either) compred to regular Smash characters. And it's rather repetitive, but I think it's fun to play through all the stages with such different locales: the sky, a ghetto, green fields, orange deserts, in caves, on mountaintops, and in the dark world of Subspace. And while the story is not exactly a deep or tightly plotted narrative, it has a lot of neat moments and tends to do justice to most of the characters. (Though I do think the Kirby characters took up too much of the limelight unnecessarily.) And there are different ways to play it--you use significantly different strategies on Intense than on Easy, such that it almost becomes a different game. And going back to gain 100% completion or to trophify enemies changes things up even more.

Beating SSE unlocks Boss Battles! I thought this was the most fun mode in Stadium. For some reason, I'm really good at this mode. Seriously, ask anyone what the hardest achievement in Brawl is, and almost everyone will tell you Boss Battles on Intense (because no continues are allowed, unlike all other modes on Intense). I beat it on my first try. Well, on this go-round, that is. It took me about five tries in '08.

But yeah, Fox is beast in Boss Battles. He can hang back and just pelt away at the boss's health with his laser. But he can also get up close and personal with his powerful aerials. He's got excellent speed and jumping height to dodge attacks, and his Reflector is positively devastating to Duon and Meta Ridley. His only Achilles' heel is to Rayquaza, against whom Laser fire does almost nothing at all--and who's almost too fast even for Fox. Then for Tabuu, it's just about dodging everything and using aerials when you can. For the dreaded Off-Waves, just mash down and shield at the same time three times in a row. There is a proper timing to it, but once you get the hang of it, the timing's really not that hard. Tabuu only had time to do one Off-Wave attack before I defeated him in Boss Battles on my Intense run.

But yeah, I shocked myself by going all the way through this on Intense on my first attempt. I did the same on Very Hard, Hard, and Normal. The only times I died were with two or three of the characters while just trying to clear it on Easy with everyone--normally through carelessness at that.

Once everything else was accomplished, that left only the random trophies and stickers remaining! So I beat up Duon repeatedly on Intense in SSE to gain coins fast for the Coin Launcher. I would keep going back and forth. When I was down to needing only one trophy, I farmed up to 9999 coins just to be sure--and I saw that final trophy (Black Shadow from the F-Zero series) only 100 or 200 coins in, ha.

So that left only the stickers then--and thus the Stickers trophy. When gaining 99 stickers via Coin Launcher started failing me, I returned to my tried and true sticker factory. I'd made a particularly effective one too: Obviously you'll want to create one on the small stage template. Make sure all three conveyor belts (not including the bottom one you'll be standing on) are the largest available--it means they'll go faster. Then set a Special Brawl to fast and heavy, a timed match of about 12 minutes, then choose Bowser and just let his very powerful neutral A combo rip into those Sandbags (which should be the only item and set on high)--which also lets you pick up any stickers that come by. This was also most effective for farming CDs earlier in the game as well.

The nicest thing about this method was that it involved the use of only one button. So I could do this on the Wii Remote, go over to my laptop, and browse the internet while using one thumb to repeatedly press A (or "2" on the Wii Remote, I guess). Some hours--and a thumb somewhat numb to feeling--later, I had all 700 stickers, all trophies, and a fully complete challenges board! And with all five Golden Hammers intact this time.

So yeah, I like Brawl. A lot. I think it's probably my favorite game on the Wii (topping Metroid Prime 3 and perhaps even Skyward Sword). There's just so much to do in this game that its one problem seems to be that there's almost too much content. The game does go a bit overboard with challenges that require you to beat various modes with all 35 characters. I'm genuinely concerned about such challenges in the next Smash Bros. game, requiring you to beat 7-10 different modes with perhaps 50 different characters each!

But yes, I love Brawl. The presentation is just astounding. I don't hear many talk about this, but the visuals are stunning--easily the best graphics on the Wii, better than Corruption, Other M, Skyward Sword, the Mario Galaxy games, etc. In SSE, you can see the background seemlessly transitioning from idyllic outdoors to an underground setting complete with glowing mushrooms in the background. Each regular stage is so beautifully rendered. And the soundtrack is practically a wet dream. There are 258 tracks, and that's just what's in the Sound Test! Each franchise has a plethora of their best music to choose from. Zelda especially got the works on this one. The only songs that I think were really missing here were "Lower Norfair" from Super Metroid and "Crystal Cave" from Yoshi's Island (also, "Ballad of the Wind Fish" from Link's Awakening, but that's actually in the game's code). Other than that, the soundtrack is near perfect.

Melee improved on the original in nearly every way, and I feel that Brawl did the same to Melee. There are many rabid Melee fanboys who hate Brawl, but most of the complaints against Brawl stem from SSE (which I actually liked) or the competitive scene, which admittedly is better in Melee. But since I don't care about competitive play, I prefer Brawl. I also find the controls in Brawl much smoother than in Melee, but that might be because Brawl was my first real Smash Bros. game.

Take item grabbing, for example. In Brawl, you can grab them on the go--in midair or while dashing. In Melee, you can't (or at least I never could figure out how). If you pressed A while dashing or in the air, your character would simply attack the item instead of picking it up. Little things like that make Brawl "feel" better to me.

Also, consider how Brawl exploded Melee in terms of visuals, soundtrack, immersion, challenges, trophies, extras--just everything! I liked Melee a lot, but I loved Brawl. So my ranking of the series is very straightforward:
1. Super Smash Bros. Brawl
2. Super Smash Bros. Melee
3. Super Smash Bros.

So that leaves only the games of the future--which is a long ways off. We know there's going to be a fourth (and fifth?) Smash Bros. game on both the 3DS and Wii U. But Sakurai's team hasn't even begun development yet because they're finishing off Kid Icarus: Uprising first. So given how long Brawl took, we could easily be looking at 2014 or later for the next Smash Bros. game. It's a shame how quick and short this thread was because it looks like it'll be a while before there are any updates from this corner!

But until then, I eagerly anticipate watching the DOJO with everyone else.
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Offline Hyruleansoldier

Twilight Dreamlander
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The Paradox of Kirby: Suckage = Ownage ^_^


Posts: 7,535


« #6 on: February 10, 2012 »

Nice writeup!

- Mad props to you sir for beating Boss Battles on Intense on your first try and foregoing the option of attaching powerup stickers to your characters in SSE!  I can't imagine 2 particular stages (I believe Entrance to Subspace as you mention) and the canyon one) to be doable without some sticker help.  Even with stickers I still lost characters too quickly, even by using all the powerhouses (DK, Bowser, Pikachu, Zelda... I forgot who else I often picked there).
  Also, immediately going Intense on SEE was admirable as well.  I went for Easy first, to refamiliarize myself with the stages (traps and forced enemy battles), so I could do it all on Intense after that (to get the other pair of movies for the choice points).

- Kirby / Jiggly flying under the stage is indeed the best way to go in Cruel Brawl (though it's scary how many times they still manage to hit you and it's hard to return to your flying routine (usually it's safer to fly over them first and aim for the other side of the platform- they're very fast in tracking you). I believe I got at least 14 KO's here, though it's not really worth bragging about since I didn't technically kill any of them :3

- Ah yes, Pikachu's cheap Thunderbolt trick.  Especially effective in the Co-up missions and other modes that allowed for co-up.  Basically you have 2 Pika's not that far apart, alternating with Thunderbolt so enemies would always end up in one of the two strikes.  Similarly you could use 2 Lucario's to just press B once to make his energy ball, and have the other Lucario mirror this (so it would essentially create a big energy ball trap where enemies would be trapped in forever - until a Bob-omb or explosive item got hit close to everyone.  But if you're lucky you can beat 15-minute brawl this way.  Just check your TV every now and then to see if your setup is still working^^

- The event with the many Yoshi's on the Rainbow Ride Co-up I was never able to beat on Hard, since I couldn't kill them fast enough (the stage would have looped completely well before the needed amount of Yoshi's were present).  Basically you need several pokéballs, preferably the Lati's to insta-kill a bunch of Yoshi's.  You had to be insanely quick to kill them as they appeared.  Hated that event.  Ï did all the others on Hard, much fun was had with the Events.  Next game should have more Events, and less "beat this monotonous mode with all characters" crap.

- 100-Man Brawl with every character: 4 or 5 mins max per char so... yeah still at least 2 hours to beat 100-Man Brawl, probably closer to 3 considering there will be last-minute failures.  Items were key here.  Imagine there would be no items allowed... it'd be another story entirely.
  There was kind of a trick to not kill them all and leave one of them to mind its own business, so they wouldn't ALL keep coming at you (you would have to kill this one to make the character opponents appear though. So if you timed it right you were in a more peaceful spot when one of the real characters came to play.

- Gah, Trophy hunting.  Though a great addition (very rewarding to physically claim most of the Enemy and Boss trophies), I remember several of them gave me a headache.  You had to have an enemy in a containable situation, and also have a Trophy Stand with you, which you sometimes needed to temporarily throw away to deal with other enemies.  The flying red paratroopa was a pain (well most flying enemies were, especially in stages with many pits), and for some characters you had to really carry the Trophy Stand with you for a while until you reached the enemy (and it was unlikely you'd get another within that same area).

  The Ridleys... *shakes head violently*  I had banned this from my memory.  Especially Meta Ridley, always flying on the left side of the ship, you'd need to be really lucky with your timing to trophify him on a quick fly-by over the ship.

- What, who all hates SSE?  It's a wonderful mode, far more compelling than Classic or All-Star.  Perhaps I don't fully embrace the fighting game genre (not when it's a game full of Nintendo characters and items), but I think they did a nice job with the story, involving all of the characters (well except 3 since you had to go find them after beating it), and offering many types of stages, brand new enemies, and replayability (Trophy Stands, difficulty, 2 sets of movies depending on some choice you'd have to make, etc.)

- What's that about the Kirby characters being so prominent?  Well it's HAL Laboratory, what did you expect?  Back in Melee they recycled the loungy theme between All-Star battles from SNES Kirby's Fun Pack (Kirby Super Star), and actually Master Hand is a boss in Kirby & the Amazing Mirror in a few places.

  HAL is just really good at making meaty games with lots of stuff to unlock, extra modes, sound tests, all that jazz.  It's been like that since Kirby's Adventure NES.

- Boss Battle and specifically Tabuu's triple wave of death seriously pisses me off.  The timing needs to be so damn perfect it's just unfair, and of cours Tabuu is always the last boss you face so every time you beat all the other bosses was for nothing if you fail yet again at Tabuu.  They should have made it like SS's boss lightning round where you get to at least chose your first boss. So you could practice at Tabuu's triple wave of death.

- I too saved all 5 Golden Hammers.  In a game that much revolving around unlocking things and perfecting your score, I considered it sacrilege to use those hammers.  I would still wish to unlock everything anyway, so to me the hammers were completely redundant.  The only trophy I could have seen myself using the hammer for was the Stickers one, since I still didn't have them all.  Even with the Sticker Factory trick it's still the most boring thing ever (although at some point I'll try to combine it with internet stuff you like you did).

- About the characters: they nerfed Ganondorf too much, and Meta Knight broke the game (he was banned from online competitions for a reason). I also feel Toon Link is way too annoying to fight.  Pikachu is overpowered, but he's still light so if you do manage to get a smash attack in he's not that likely to recover properly.  Pika's double quick attack recover is far from perfect, as you need to use 2 different directions so it doesn't usually cover enough ground if you're far away from a safe ledge.


So, what is next for you?  Another Zelda run?  Perhaps a Mario run?  I'm just about done with SM 64 (DS) myself, and wouldn't mind playing the Galaxy games again.  Getting a perfect file in Sunshine is something that I probably won't ever do again - there's just too many blue coins to collect.  The sad thing about Sunshine is it had only 7 stages (not counting Corona Mountain and the wonderful Delphino main hub), and most of them were beach-themed.   Because of all the blue coins it didn't even feel like you were collecting 120 stars, either.  And yet Sunshine offers so many joys, and proved to be a source of inspiration for some parts in Galaxy, too.
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Offline Rew

The Hylian Grammarian
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Subjecting innocents to Vogon poetry since 1980.


Posts: 1,750


WWW
« #7 on: February 11, 2012 »

- Yeah, I couldn't even beat Entrance to Subspace on Intense in '08 *with* stickers and full character selection! And I made sure to start it on Intense this time around because that's the only way to get the Intense icon on your file--even if you beat every stage on Intense later, the file itself keeps the icon of the difficulty you started on. It was very instructive, though, being limited to certain characters--it really helped me learn how to use them best and made me feel more accomplished.

- Yeah, Cruel Brawl and 15-Minute Brawl were a mess. The only thing that I think would be worse than the Blue Alloy requirement is if they made it survive 15-Minute Brawl with all characters. (They'd better NOT do that in SSB4!) I finished the challenges on those and never touched them again.

- I never attempted any of the co-op Events on Hard because I don't have anyone to play with me. (Well, I guess Mattie and I could try. ) The best strategy for the Yoshis for me was to put Meta Knight on the top mast of the Pirate Ship and spam up-tilt. That was on Easy, though--I don't know how effective that would be on Hard. Ditto for Pikachu's Thunder spam on the final co-op Event on Hard.

- It took me a LOT longer than three hours to clear 100-Man Brawl with everyone. Let's just say there was a lot more failure than success for me.

- Yeah, trophifying was very difficult but a worthy challenge. I too had trouble with the Red Paratroopa! I seriously got most of the Mario enemies without even trying, but those Red Paratroopas move at lightning speed on Intense, swooping on and off the screen. I also had trouble with the Giant Goomba because it insisted on always being surrounded by the smaller Goombas. Also, I had absolutely uncanny bad luck when it came to capturing Spaaks (the cloud enemies), despite them being everywhere. When I finally got one (at the very end, in that windy shaft in The Great Maze), the wind *almost* blew it off the screen.

- Well, hisak hates SSE pretty passionately. It's also profoundly unpopular on GameFAQs (but what else is new). But yeah, I pretty much agree with everything you said, completely. My two complaints are that it is rather repetitive at places, and the enemies are overpowered. But other than, it was great stuff. I also think they could've done with having more Nintendo-themed stages, such as what we had in Melee's Adventure Mode with Mushroom Kingdom, Brinstar, etc.

- Oh, I know this game is made by the Kirby people. So that the Kirby characters got such large roles just looked like whoring to me. The beginning should've had Mario vs. Link instead of Kirby. I didn't like how King Dedede was the genius Gambit Master who outwits Tabuu's plans either. It was a cool subplot, don't get me wrong, but the idea of this ethereal, godlike supernatural being who's outwitted by a cartoon penguin seems silly to me. Also, it should've been Luigi vs. Bowser at the end of that first Subspace stage, not King Dedede, since Luigi's more of an "expert" on handling Bowser.

- Once I got the timing down, I was pretty much automatic on Tabuu's Off-Waves. The best thing to do is to face him in The Great Maze on Intense and just practice getting the timing down not only for the Off-Waves but all his attacks. It pays off in Boss Battles since BB on Intense is slower and easier than SSE on Intense.

- Agreed on Ganondorf, although I found him still slow and cumbersome in Melee too. Falcon was really nerfed from Melee to Brawl, while Pikachu's spam attacks were made devastating and godlike. (I don't remember Thunder having much effect in Melee.) I've heard that Meta Knight is broken, but I can't use him very well myself, so there's that. I'm glad they got rid of Dr. Mario and Pichu, as they were useless characters. But Roy was my main in Melee, so I was very sad to see him not in Brawl. Ike just isn't the same. Roy will, now and forever, be our boy.

Random, but given that Brawl contains my favorite soundtrack in all video games, I just thought I'd share my favorites:
- Final Destination
- Step: The Plain
- Underground Theme (Super Mario Land)
- Airship Theme (Super Mario Bros. 3)
- Bramble Blast
- Battle for Storm Hill
- all of the Legend of Zelda songs
- Multiplayer (Metroid Prime 2)
- Gourmet Race
- King Dedede's Theme
- Dream Chaser
- Snowman
- most of the Fire Emblem songs
- Forest of Hope
- Power-Up Music
- Green Hill Zone
- Scrap Brain Zone
- Emerald Hill Zone
- HIS WORLD (Instrumental)

As for what's up next, I'm going to take a break from video gaming from a while to attend to other things. I plan to be back at it long about Easter, though. Up next will be the Super Mario series! I'm going to start off with just the main series since Mario has way too many damned spin-offs. I may include Super Princess Peach in the run, though, since it's a stand-alone game. After that, I'll either move on to the Wario Land series, Mario Kart, or the Mario RPG games.
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