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Author Topic: See you in hell.  (Read 4966 times)
Offline Hyruleansoldier

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The Paradox of Kirby: Suckage = Ownage ^_^


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« #40 on: January 29, 2007 »

Quote from: Loki;19946
Well I think that the fact that it's far harder (if not impossible) to find someone that's never done something wrong than it is to find someone that's done a lot wrong is proof enough that we're inherently bad creatures.


I wouldn't say 'bad,' I would say 'fallible'. Nothing or nobody's perfect, that doesn't make them bad per se. Though the cliché "Everyone has a darkside" is true, I do believe everyone has a good side just as well... They're two sides of a coin.
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Offline Adam

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« #41 on: January 30, 2007 »

Quote from: NH
For the record, anti-social behavior has nothing to do with not being social. It's the condition in which a person has no guilt in harming others or in violating thier rights, and the debate as to whether or not video games can cause this behavior has been going on since before the Jack Thompson days.
I stand, in my own ignorance, corrected.

Quote from: HS
I wouldn't say 'bad,' I would say 'fallible'. Nothing or nobody's perfect, that doesn't make them bad per se.
Aw, now it's just a debate of semantics.  If we assume the traditional Christian "black and white" moral dichotomy, then yes, I would say that being fallible makes us "bad" (aka "sinful").  And despite the negative connotations associated with the word, there's really nothing wrong with that, as it's the natural state, so to speak.
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Offline Captain Bootleg

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« #42 on: February 05, 2007 »

Now I am Catholic, and I do like Pope Benedict XVI.  Sure, he's no JPII, but noone was asking him to be.  Because his word have nothing to do with the faith of the Church, you can take that as just his opinion.  With all the bad press the video game industry gets, I'm not surprised for a non-gamer like himself would think all games were evil.

Genesis 1:128 "On the 8th Day, God Created Nintendo. He looked around to see what he had done, and he found it amazingly good."
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Offline GAMEFREAK

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« #43 on: February 05, 2007 »

Quote from: Captain Bootleg;24392
Genesis 1:128 "On the 8th Day, God Created Nintendo. He looked around to see what he had done, and he found it amazingly good."


More like.."and saw it was so freakin sweet that God sat and created the man Miyamoto who would create the greatest game ever. The Legend of Zelda."
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Offline SouthpawLink

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« #44 on: February 14, 2007 »

Hello all!

There are a few posts which I could reply to (that relate to other issues), but I'd rather just speak about the topic at hand.

Here is an article which gives the quote some context:

In a message released Jan. 24 for the 41st World Communications Day, to be observed May 20, the pope called upon media leaders, parents, Catholic parishes and schools to work to expose children to what is “aesthetically and morally excellent” and to help them acquire “skills of discernment.”

Parents and teachers have a responsibility “to educate children in the ways of beauty, truth and goodness,” the pope said, adding that effort “can be supported by the media industry only to the extent that it promotes fundamental human dignity, the true value of marriage and family life and the positive achievements and goals of humanity.”

“Any trend to produce programs and products – including animated films and video games – which in the name of entertainment exalt violence and portray anti-social behavior or the trivialization of human sexuality is a perversion, all the more repulsive when these programs are directed at children and adolescents,” Pope Benedict said.

He decried such “entertainment” directed to adolescents as an affront “to the countless innocent young people who actually suffer violence, exploitation and abuse.”

The message, directed to the World Communications Day 2007 theme of “Children and the Media: A Challenge for Education,” pointed to the dramatic impact of media on education of young people, its shaping of the cultural landscape and its facilitation by globalization and the “rapid development of technology.”

“Indeed,” the pope said, “some claim that the formative influence of the media rivals that of the school, the church and maybe even the home.”

In this environment, “training in the proper use of the media is essential for the cultural, moral and spiritual development of children,” the pope said.

He pointed to the education of “children to be discriminating” consumers to be responsibility of parents, the church, schools and the wider community.

The role of parents in forming children is primary, he said. “They have a right and duty to ensure the prudent use of the media by training the conscience of their children to express sound and objective judgments which will then guide them in choosing or rejecting programs available.”

Children, he stressed, should be “exposed to what is aesthetically and morally excellent,” including “children’s classics in literature, to the fine arts and to uplifting music.”

"Beauty, a kind of mirror of the divine, inspires and vivifies young hearts and minds, while ugliness and coarseness have a depressing impact on attitudes and behavior," Pope Benedict said.

In acknowledging that “popular literature will always have its place in culture,” the pope warned of “the temptation to sensationalize” in the choice of content in schools.

“So often freedom is presented as a relentless search for pleasure or new experiences,” the pope said. “Yet this is a condemnation, not a liberation! True freedom could never condemn the individual – especially a child – to an insatiable quest for novelty.”

“Parents,” he added, are “guardians of that freedom” who, “while gradually giving their children greater freedom, introduce them to the profound joy of life.”

He called upon the media industry “to safeguard the common good, to uphold the truth, to protect individual human dignity and to promote respect for the needs of the family.”

Catholic parishes and schools should offer support to parents and young people in promoting media education, he said.

“The church,” he said, “desires to share a vision of human dignity that is central to all worthy human communication.”


 http://www.catholic.org/international/international_story.php?id=22807


I must commend the Holy Father for giving this issue, that of glorifying violence and trivializing sexuality, more public awareness.

As a video game player, I don't have any objections to what he said. In fact, I have wondered about the morality of playing violent video games in the past. When I think about it, the video games that I like to play do not glorify violence, nor do they trivialize sexuality. Come on, they're Nintendo games! The Legend of Zelda series is just as much about exploring a huge land and solving devious puzzles as it is about killing enemies (who aren't even human). Also, Link is presented as a morally upstanding individual, and the games outright encourage us to help others (we're rewarded for doing so). And so, I don't think that my playing The Legend of Zelda series is morally wrong. I have, however, experienced uncomfort while playing Grand Theft Auto games, because I knew what I could possibly do in those games, and so I rarely ever play them.

Another thing I wanted to mention really quickly is music. After becoming more religious over the past several years, I've felt uneasy about some of the songs I used to enjoy and now I generally tend to skip them.

I may have some more comments later, but right now I have to go. It's great to be back, and it's also nice to see a lot of new faces!


In layman's terms, I think the pope was saying, "Creating things - including video games - that glorify violence, anti-social behavior or minimalize human sexuality in the name of entertainment is wrong."

The pope did not condemn all video games, or even people who play video games, because not all video games have those elements which he considers to be wrong (a perversion). I would suppose, however, that it would be wrong to experience joy after doing something morally wrong in a video game (e.g. stealing a car, murdering an innocent person). This is true because sin can be commited by thought, word, and deed (even those that are "make believe").
« Last Edit: February 14, 2007 by SouthpawLink » Logged

"To love is to will the good of another." - Aristotle, Rhetoric, II, 4.

Love differs from goodwill "because it denotes a certain union of affections between the lover and the beloved, in as much as the lover deems the beloved as somewhat united to him, or belonging to him, and so tends towards him." - St. Thomas Aquinas, Summa theologiae, II-II, 27, 2.

"We all want to live happily; in the whole human race there is no one who does not assent to this proposition, even before it is fully articulated." - St. Augustine, De moribus eccl. 1, 3, 4.

"Man’s consummation consists in the attainment of his last end, which is perfect beatitude or happiness, and this consists in the vision of God." - St. Thomas Aquinas, Compendium theologiae, 149.
Offline Sheldon Cooper PhD

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« #45 on: February 21, 2007 »

So basically what the pope is saying is that he diesnt like violent crap and wants others to feel the same way....
Yet I understand in a way how he feels..being forced to work at a concentration camp(at least thats what i heard)...still i dont feel that gaming will send me to hell....
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Offline Fleamo

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« #46 on: February 21, 2007 »

Quote from: Zelda Apprentice;32497
Yet I understand in a way how he feels..being forced to work at a concentration camp(at least thats what i heard)
If by "forced to work at a concentration camp" you mean "a member of Hitler Youth at age 14 and a member of the Nazi anti-aircraft corps at age 16, and then in an American POW camp for a few months after his unit disbanded and he tried to go back to his house, where the Americans had set up headquarters" then yes.  He was.
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http://cloop.wordpress.com

Hey you little runts down in the Trendy Game Shop, posting constantly without really saying anything:  I played your game once.   I know what that's like.  I was once your leader.  You know the reason posts don't count in the Trendy Game?  You're looking at him.  Respect your elders.
Offline The_Nameless_One

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« #47 on: February 21, 2007 »

Any manner of breathing, or living there in of, will send you to hell.

Seriously, I think the guy has a loose screw.
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Offline Emcnelis

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« #48 on: February 21, 2007 »

I'm... gonna go to... hell...?
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Offline Fleamo

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« #49 on: February 21, 2007 »

Quote from: Emcnelis;32793
I'm... gonna go to... hell...?
Presuming it exists and pretty much any religion is right about it, yeah probably.
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http://cloop.wordpress.com

Hey you little runts down in the Trendy Game Shop, posting constantly without really saying anything:  I played your game once.   I know what that's like.  I was once your leader.  You know the reason posts don't count in the Trendy Game?  You're looking at him.  Respect your elders.
Offline Inane

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Posts: 11


« #50 on: February 22, 2007 »

The Pope did not say that you would go to Hell for this. As someone before me said "It's only the Pope's opinion and he wishes only influence."

My opinion though is that Violence and/or sexual content in a video game really alters your conscience, but it does not make you want to perform violent acts. The Pope is basically showing how to form a good conscience.As you might know, a good conscience will help you make good decisions. This is what I believe the Pope was trying to get at.

YOU WILL NOT GO TO HELL FOR PLAYING VIOLENT VGS.
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Offline Hyruleansoldier

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The Paradox of Kirby: Suckage = Ownage ^_^


Posts: 7,535


« #51 on: February 22, 2007 »

Quote from: Inane;33154
The Pope did not say that you would go to Hell for this. As someone before me said "It's only the Pope's opinion and he wishes only influence."

My opinion though is that Violence and/or sexual content in a video game really alters your conscience, but it does not make you want to perform violent acts. The Pope is basically showing how to form a good conscience.As you might know, a good conscience will help you make good decisions. This is what I believe the Pope was trying to get at.

YOU WILL NOT GO TO HELL FOR PLAYING VIOLENT VGS.

Thanks for stating the obvious. I'm all relieved now. [/sarcasm]
« Last Edit: March 11, 2007 by Hyruleansoldier » Logged

Offline GAMEFREAK

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« #52 on: February 22, 2007 »

Quote from: Inane;33154
My opinion though is that Violence and/or sexual content in a video game really alters your conscience, but it does not make you want to perform violent acts. The Pope is basically showing how to form a good conscience.As you might know, a good conscience will help you make good decisions. This is what I believe the Pope was trying to get at.


Or he just wants you to simply not play video games. Whats left to argue here?
W00t! 500 posts. Each getting better by the day.
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Offline Wiired

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Posts: 156


« #53 on: February 22, 2007 »

Wow, this thread is still going on?

Warms my heart to post something people appreciate.
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Offline Nikola

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Posts: 453


« #54 on: March 10, 2007 »

I'm too Polish to go against ol' John Paul the 2nd.
What I think is that he means if the game incourages such things.
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Offline maddysageofhyrule

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Playing Zelda for 8 years!


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« #55 on: March 30, 2007 »

If we belive in God and Jesus and we still play video games we won't go to hell. Simple as that
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Offline ShadowJoker

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« #56 on: March 30, 2007 »

If we belive in God and Jesus and we still play video games we won't go to hell. Simple as that

Oh, crud!
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Offline maddysageofhyrule

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Playing Zelda for 8 years!


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« #57 on: March 30, 2007 »

Some games encoruge other religons like Zelda. We just need to remeber that these are just GAMES. They are not real
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Offline Ezlo's Apprentice

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« #58 on: March 30, 2007 »

Some games encoruge other religons like Zelda.

WTH? 

And your first point also threw me completely.
If we belive in God and Jesus and we still play video games we won't go to hell. Simple as that
If we believe in God and Jesus and still masturbate merrily, will we also avoid going to hell? These things are anything but simple, and a quick word of warning, in the Lens of Truth, nothing is truly simple.
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Offline Hyruleansoldier

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The Paradox of Kirby: Suckage = Ownage ^_^


Posts: 7,535


« #59 on: March 30, 2007 »

Err... You'll only go to hell if you believe in it? That should pretty much say it all.

And I think, praytell, he meant that Zelda in fact encourages other religions... But then I'd still like to know which in particular 

A statement where I could find myself in, though, is that games can in a way perform the function of a religion as well. Opium and all that...
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