I've Had It With This Forum

[Hyruleansoldier]

Arguments like these tire me out.

EVERY Zelda game has replay value. If you feel otherwise, then you are not a true Zelda fan(boy). Seeing that you clearly mean sth different with replay value, I'm not going to get worked up and just present to you one key-word in the Zelda franchise:

Non-linearity.

This is the key to replayability.

TP is the most linear game out there, so it has the least replayability.
ALTTP and OOT do not differ much in this respect, as you can easily do one dungeon/temple before the other. The list of things you could do in random order are IMMENSE, believe me. I've played both games a gazillion times, and I can tell you there has not been one playthrough which the exact same pattern as the rest.

Non-linearity = fun replayability

But honestly, to even question MM's replayability? MM *IS* replayability. The game basically resets every three days. You can choose other paths, defeat enemies in other ways, solve puzzles differently,... help different people, do different sidequests. It's non-linear. It's varied. It's... VERY replayable.

I kindly ask other members to back me up on this stuff.

[Ikkutebayo]

Yes, in many Zeldas, you can get an extra line of dialogue by talking to someone at a certain point of the game (MM, OOT, WW... and TP too), that adds to the replay value. But, even in a linear game, you can choose how do you want to play, and this applies to TP too. Try to beat your best time, try to beat the game in this way, or in this other way... I forgot to say that you can skip the skills too, but not the first one for actually ending the game.

And, as I said, you can skip the sequences to just play the game and get to the action quickly. Every Zelda has its own replay value, TP too. It's not my problem if you finished your game and you don't want to replay it, that's fine, but I do and I keep finding neat things.

[hupla]

True you can do the doungens in another order in OoT and ALLTP some pepole (me) dont want to only play the doungens again we want to find out new things meet new NPC's.

MM had the bombers notebook
WW had the phototaking

TP has 2 quests that are obvious to spot and not that well intutive

[Carl Jr.]

ok seeyah Emc!   ^^

[The Tao Of Bill]

Why do you mean by replay value? OOT didn't have it at all.

Sure it did! There were sword upgrades, and many other side quests.  

TP has its own replay value: You can skip the sequences to just play the game, there are several dialogues changing depending of what you did through the game, and characters that tell you what they are going to do later, but you won't catch these lines until you have played the game at least once.

lol I like how you make this claim then go and say:

Sorry, but giving you a blue shirt and translating the Hylian text (which YOU can translate with the proper dictionary) isn't enough for a second play. I would play the game again without those gimmicks.

So dialogue change is a big deal to you in TP but not in WW. Sounds a bit hypocritical to me. Oh and...

(which YOU can translate with the proper dictionary)

NERD ALERT NERD ALERT...I'm sorry but you are WAY too into zelda if you have (and use) a hylian to english dictionary. Most players don't know how to translate hylian and don't attempt to either. Also there was more than just those reasons to complete WW a second time. There were many sidequests in WW. And a whole ocean to explore. It took a long time for me to explore every island.

In Link's Awakening, you can see an extended ending by not dieing once. But the game doesn't change.

In ALTTP, there wasn't a second quest at all.

As I said. I am talking about 3D zelda games. I could care less about 2D ones. Not a big fan of them.

In OOT? None.

In MM? None. You could keep playing the game and try to beat the dungeons again, or just fighting the bosses, but that isn't replay at all.

However, you can replay any Zelda with restrictions, like beating the game in the shortest time (because TP has a clock), playing with 3 hearts and try to beat the Cave of Ordeals without any faeries...

There is just ONE Zelda with an actual replay value = LOZ. The arrangement of the dungeons change during the second play. I, of course, want a whole Master Quest for each game, but it won't happen.

Replay value is not JUST a 2nd quest. 2nd quests are rare to find. It's about finding interesting things that you didn't find in the first run. The most interesting things to find in TP were secret caves throughout hyrule field. Sidequests are a huge factor in zelda replayability. And playing a game over with limits is just boring when there is nothing new to experience. I'm not looking for a challenge. I'm looking for something I didn't see before.

[Ikkutebayo]

I'm looking for something I didn't see before.

But TP has those things! I was surprised how the Telma's friends dialogue when you hear them from above (as a wolf) can change depending if your visited them before or not! If you look closely, there are more things like this through the whole game.

And then, the minigames. Fishing, flying, the "grab the stars" game, the goat minigame at Ordon, the marble game at Hena's hut... you can play them as much as you want, and you can try to beat your marks; In the fly one I struggled to get at least 56000 points, because is a fun minigame.

WW had a lot of minigames, but I think it depended a LOT of subquests.

[Hyruleansoldier]

But TP has those things! I was surprised how the Telma's friends dialogue when you hear them from above (as a wolf) can change depending if your visited them before or not! If you look closely, there are more things like this through the whole game.

That is true though. Telma's friends will actually be mean to you before you're supposed to meet them, and if you *officially* meet them after, they will literally say they apologize for being so rude to you. I thought that cool. In my 2nd playthrough this didn't happen as I hadn't gone to see them before. Things like this is (one of the many things) which make Zelda games so great. This was less the case in TP in general though. I'm still finding new stuff in all of the other games, especially MM. "Where is everyone at any given point in the 3 days and what are their lines?" is a game you can play for ages. FAQ's about this have been written. I don't see them doing that with much other games then MM though, but hey. I *am* someone who pays a great deal of attention to what the characters in-game have to say at any given point. OOT (& MM again) had this thing where you could try on all the masks and show them to EVERYONE. FAQ's about *that* have been written too. It yields hundreds of different reactions. Sweetness.

[Ikkutebayo]

But MM IS Clock Town. TP doesn't have a Clock Town, or high NPC interaction. It isn't fair to compare a Town which is worth 3 dungeons with a Zelda which has one of the most solid main quest in the series.

[hupla]

But MM IS Clock Town. TP doesn't have a Clock Town, or high NPC interaction. It isn't fair to compare a Town which is worth 3 dungeons with a Zelda which has one of the most solid main quest in the series.

Yes it is fair TP had a lot of NPC's but with nothing to say.


Also for a lot of pepole we want more than a mainquest and to tell you the truth I loved Majora's main quest there was so much to do inbetween doungens.

[The Tao Of Bill]

Yes it is fair TP had a lot of NPC's but with nothing to say.


Also for a lot of pepole we want more than a mainquest and to tell you the truth I loved Majora's main quest there was so much to do inbetween doungens.

Exactly. Zelda games come in a package. You can't just have all main quest. TP might have had a 40 hour main quest which is awesome. But MM has HUNDREDS of hours of reply value which made it in my opinion the best zelda game of all time.

[Ikkutebayo]

Yes it is fair TP had a lot of NPC's but with nothing to say.

MM has 3 days, with 24 hours. There are a million of combinations for each character.

MM was a one-shot game, with 4 good dungeons BUT a full town with its own stories, which connected with other stories, and had a lot of development. That's why I think CT overcomes the "missing" dungeons, because it's amazing.
WW minigames and quest don't overcome the 4 missing dungeons. They are just filler, with any development at all.
TP doesn't have filler. TP is what is it. You like it, or you hate it. But don't start comparing with other games in points that the game didn't want to cover.

However, making 8 different dungeons with great mechanics, a huge world and all of that have its merit too.

[The Tao Of Bill]

MM has 3 days, with 24 hours. There are a million of combinations for each character.

MM was a one-shot game, with 4 good dungeons BUT a full town with its own stories, which connected with other stories, and had a lot of development. That's why I think CT overcomes the "missing" dungeons, because it's amazing.
WW minigames and quest don't overcome the 4 missing dungeons. They are just filler, with any development at all.
TP doesn't have filler. TP is what is it. You like it, or you hate it. But don't start comparing with other games in points that the game didn't want to cover.

However, making 8 different dungeons with great mechanics, a huge world and all of that have its merit too.

No one is saying it doesn't have it's merit. But it is perfectly within reason to compare one zelda title to another. Fact is TP was no OoT. Being that it was no OoT it was no MM. And it comes close to WW but at least wind waker had more to discover.

[Hyruleansoldier]

MM has 3 days, with 24 hours. There are a million of combinations for each character.

MM was a one-shot game, with 4 good dungeons BUT a full town with its own stories, which connected with other stories, and had a lot of development. That's why I think CT overcomes the "missing" dungeons, because it's amazing.
WW minigames and quest don't overcome the 4 missing dungeons. They are just filler, with any development at all.
TP doesn't have filler. TP is what is it. You like it, or you hate it. But don't start comparing with other games in points that the game didn't want to cover.

However, making 8 different dungeons with great mechanics, a huge world and all of that have its merit too.

Of course it is. I don't think comparing the games will really help - "it is what it is" - and what you want it to be. I'll never deny that TP has a great, long quest, with especially in first half a lot of inter-dungeon sidequests. That was great. The game was lengthy, too. But you just can't deny that it's missing... something. That's not negativism, that's realism. It lacks a certain essential glorious epic Zelda feeling which is not that easy to describe. I think that bottom line I have to agree that TP is in a way lacking in the replayability which makes the others so great. But I wouldn't say that the gap between them is SO big that it makes it into a bad Zelda title. There are no real bad Zelda titles to me, nor does TP come last on any list of mine in particular. But it has its flaws, end of story. Now don't bash me for saying something negative about it - I'm all for healthy debates. Just don't praise TP into the sky for lame reasons and expect others to just let you without giving some healthy counter-arguments.

But I am afraid people *will* start yafting about the goods 'n bads for ages. Ah well, it's the very nature of man to yaft. Can't be helped.

[Scott Shelby]

Take it from someone who's more than a Nintendo fan- Twilight Princess is a BAD game. Period. People here tend to say "hey, it's Zelda....so it's great!". That isn't the case. Face it, the game has an average story, a standard battle system, a complete lack of compelling sidequest, no difficulty, takes the player by the hand (linear), and just isn't that fun (or good). Nintendo dropped a mediocre Zelda game, and that's that. It get's blown away by even THIS YEAR's competition and is forgettable. Face it, Nintendo's game was a let-down and failed to live up to expectations and promises. And remember, before this starts a war, that this is my OPINION (the same thing that seems to have angered our friend).



It really seems to me that you've shown a lack of maturity here. People criticize ALL of our favorite games here. I'm in love with games like FF, Ratchet and Clank, etc. that get put down ALL THE TIME here. Although I've been angered, I've never callled everyone retarded and threatened to leave before.

That said, I really hope you reconsider leaving. Your main goal in leaving is to find a site where where Zelda won't be criticized.
Remember this, there are 2 problems with that move:

1.) You're not likely going to find a more knowledgeableZelda site than the Hylia

2.) I highly doubt you'll ever find a site where everyone likes a game.

Video game forums are all about debate. Instead of leaving, lay out your own arguments as to why the game is good, make topics, spark debates, etc. If you care about the series as much as you seem to, don't run away, defend it

[Ikkutebayo]

But it has its flaws, end of story.

Nobody said TP is perfect. My first message in this thread was;

Yeah, people is bashing the game too much. The worst Zelda? Oh my, now we have gourmets there. Zelda TP is possibly one of the best 10 games of this generation (talking about the GC one), and, depending on your view, it could be the best, or the second best 3D Zelda. Majora's Mask is in a league of its own.

Of course, TP isn't perfect, but neither OOT or WW (which had so many gameplay flaws that I can't sum them all).

The criticizing around this game is fanboy-ish, most of them don't have anything to do with the actual quality of the game.

TP isn't my favourite Zelda, it's third or fourth in my personal ranking, just like this:
1. ALTTP
2. MM
3. TP = OOT
4. LA
5. WW

I'm in the third play already, it just have some kind of gameplay formula that I don't grow tired of. I could kill monsters and cross the fields forever, it's a masterpiece of overworld. And it has too much dedication on small yet entertaining things like the positions of grasses and jars that it gives me headaches.

[Nikola]

I'll have to agree with Uchiha.
When you play it through first time, it's "Who gives a ****.", but then when you play it again and again, looking at the story and comparing, it's nothing. TP barely compares to the greatness of Majora's Mask.

Without debate there's no fun.

[Witless]

To be honest, if TP had voice overs and WAY better cinematics, the main quest would be awesome.

Even though I don't think TP is essentially a bad game, it's not the greatest at all.

[Ezlo's Apprentice]

Would you believe TP needed more development time...?

The gameplay was fine. The story was my main issue. It seemed rushed towards the end. It's not a bad game, it's a slightly dodgy one.

But feel free to storm off in a huff cos you can't handle peoples opinions. Unfortunately they are a nasty side effect of forums... >.>

[JordAnime]

To be honest, if TP had voice overs and WAY better cinematics, the main quest would be awesome.

The cinematic sequences were excellent, the story's underdeveloped aspects were the games main flaw.

[Witless]

The cinematic sequences were excellent, the story's underdeveloped aspects were the games main flaw.

They could be better. They were boring and too short.