Possible major sequence break in WW (theory)

[Super Train Station H]

Could it be possible to complete the Triforce before completing the Wind Temple?

I know you can get some of the Triforce Charts with very few items, especially since I accidently got one before I even beat Dragon Roost and i was totally suprised, I didnt even know the triforce was in the game.

I guess it could be possible to get the Triforce charts before beating the Wind Temple, but only if if you leave right after getting the Hookshot instead of continuing on to finish the dungeon.

After collecting the hookshot, you in theory should have everything you need in order to get the charts and the shards. If the portal to Hyrule re-opening, and being able to break the Ganon's Castle barrier are triggered by completing the Triforce and not the actual "blessing" of the Master Sword, which may just be a convention of the storyline and not the actual gameplay, similar to how Human Link can enter the Twilight without becoming a wolf using a sequence break

[Hyruleansoldier]

Hmm I have always wondered about that... But if you didn't complete the final dungeon, your Master Sword wouldn't be fully charged with the power to repel evil, so you couldn't proceed to Ganon's Castle anyway...

But I suppose you should be able to go back to Hyrule before beating it, yes.

[Super Train Station H]

Hmm I have always wondered about that... But if you didn't complete the final dungeon, your Master Sword wouldn't be fully charged with the power to repel evil, so you couldn't proceed to Ganon's Castle anyway...

But I suppose you should be able to go back to Hyrule before beating it, yes.

Consider this: The "power to repel evil" may just be a storyline thing and not an actual mechanic of the programming.

You would HAVE to have the Master Sword to get the Triforce peices anyway, and the Triforce is what opens the portal to get back into Hyrule.

Therefore, its possible that the cutscene to break down the barrier is triggered by having the triforce, and not the cutscene to have the Master Sword charged.

Having dabbled in game design, I know that is how I would have handled it.

[Hyruleansoldier]

No I doubt that. The game registers when the MS is back to its full potential, and in the cutscene you see it glowing at full power. I sincerly doubt that you could break the barrier without having finished the final dungeon. But this is sth worth proving nonetheless... Cause things like this are known to exist (cf. OOT!)

[Ezlo's Apprentice]

It's an interesting possibility. I was looking to replay WW (and TP I guess) when I got back home. Might be fun trying to work this into my playthrough.

If it isn't possible, WW's superiority over TP regarding development and testing is secured.

This will be my mission when I get home methinks. If anyone else wants to have a go and beat me to this, go for it. You've still got another month before I'm anywhere near a proper Nintendo console...

[Super Train Station H]

No I doubt that. The game registers when the MS is back to its full potential, and in the cutscene you see it glowing at full power. I sincerly doubt that you could break the barrier without having finished the final dungeon. But this is sth worth proving nonetheless... Cause things like this are known to exist (cf. OOT!)

Have you seen the video on Youtube of the sequence break that allows Link to have the Master Sword and Hero's Tunic before he even leaves Ordon?

If you go through the regular events as the fullly equiped link, when he is pulled through the portal, he will go back to his farm clothes during the cutscene when he transforms for the first time despite already having the hero's clothes seconds before.

this shows that the cutscenes themselves are not nescessarily dependant on the continuity which the storyline demands, therefore it could be very possible that in Wind Waker the Triforce (and therefore the portal to return ot Hyrule) is all that is needed to activate the scene with link breaking the barrier with the MS.

[JC]

If you notice, you ACTUALLY PRESS B WITHIN A SET DISTANCE OF THE MAGICAL BARRIER to get to Ganon's Tower. When this happens, the game checks to see if all the necessary events have been completed in order to play the cinematic that breaks the barrier.

if ((winddungeon + earthdungeon) == NOTCOMPLETE)

// code here

else
(playBarriercinematic)

It prolly looks something like that in the game's event handler (But, this is just thrown together code by me. There is ALOT more to it.) Only upon completion of the dungeon itself can the game register it as 'complete', if you will.

However, if you only need to complete one dungeon and half the other, get the Triforce parts and you can enter Ganon's Tower, then that is just sloppy programming on Nintendo's part.

Maybe TWW handles cinematics differently. TP obviously uses actual cinematic files. TWW used in-game cinematics, where the game's script controlled what happened to every single polygon, text blurb, camera action, etc at any given point.  In TP, you can tell that there is a huge graphical improvement when going from gameplay to a cinematic. Best example: In Hyrule Castle before every fight with the final boss.

[Hyruleansoldier]

However, if you only need to complete one dungeon and half the other, get the Triforce parts and you can enter Ganon's Tower, then that is just sloppy programming on Nintendo's part.

Obviously. But I don't think so, especially with the additional cinematics comparison.

Maybe TWW handles cinematics differently. TP obviously uses actual cinematic files. TWW used in-game cinematics, where the game's script controlled what happened to every single polygon, text blurb, camera action, etc at any given point.  In TP, you can tell that there is a huge graphical improvement when going from gameplay to a cinematic. Best example: In Hyrule Castle before every fight with the final boss.

Yes, TP's cutscenes are obviously pre-programmed, whereas in the previous installments they worked differently. I seriously don't believe Nintendo would have been so sloppy with this in TWW. But until someone marches on to actually try it we could rant about it on and on...

[LexLionHart]

TWW being one of the least sloppy Zelda games ever made...

I seriously doubt it.

[Fluesopp]

TP obviously uses actual cinematic files.

Absolutly NOT!
As I have disecated the gamefiles I would know this.
The only true cinematic is the trailer after the introscreen. The others are just ingame sequences.. The reson of Link being farmboy instead of Hero is just coding. Every big cutscene have it's own objectset where it gathers objects that's not preloaded into the scene. And the forest scene is just a cutscene. Link (the controlled) is a wolf, and the other link is a fake.. Loaded by the game.
And an answer to the first post: No, I would hardly believe that it's possible to break the barrier with just the triforce. It's just one modification in one line of code:
if (gotTriforce() && swordPowerup == 2) instead of if (gotTriforce())

[Ezlo's Apprentice]

Well, it was a nice theory but alas I have tried it today and the result: Nothing.

Although upon collecting all the Triforce shards, the KoRL tells you to hurry back to Hyrule, he changes his mind when you get to the Tower of the Gods and informs you that you should restore the Master Sword to its full power.

Guess I should go finish the Wind Temple now then...

[Rew]

Wow! It's as if the game makers (in the form of KoRL) saw this very thing coming and said to us, "Not so fast, my friend." It really is a testament to just how solidly made WW actually is.

[Faceless]

The KoRL says that every time regardless of you having the Triforce doesn't it?
The fact that he said to go there shows that Nintendo didn't take it into account.
If you had gotten some new dialogue then Nintendo would have deserved some praise over this.

[Ezlo's Apprentice]

It's posisble they did, there was a minor change in dialogue later on. After completing the Wind Temple, you find KoRL talking to Fishman. Fishman swims off and originally (according to a Text Dump I have to hand), KoRL says to you:

Link, I have troubling news...

Ganon has not shown himself above the seas since Valoo unleashed his fiery wrath upon him.

And what's worse, there is not a creature stirring his base of operations in this world...the Forsaken Fortress.

...I cannnot imagine how it is possible, and yet I cannot shake this foreboding feeling I have about the princess, Zelda.

Link, you must search for all the Triforce shards so that we can head back to Hyrule without delay!

Sadly I didn't take down the new line at the time, but the last sentence is replaced with something about taking the complete Triforce to Hyrule, rather than telling you about having to go on the Trawl.

I should've thought about copying it down but I have this habit of being a bit thick from time to time...

[hisak]

About TP's cinematics: wouldn't they either have to have multiple cinematics for the variables (like the shield, armor, and sword you have equipped) or just factor those into the equation when the cinematic started? And since Nintendo was too lazy to unflip the Wii version, it would seem that they would choose the simplest one and the one that takes up the least space (the second one). Of course, I'm no expert at game programming, so it's possible that the first choice might be simpler.

[Haru to Ashura]

I got every Triforce piece in the game without a map.  I mean, freckin c'mon. They send up glowing beams into the sky, they're not that hard to find.

So, yes, that part is at least possible...  But I think I beat the Wind Temple first anyway.

[LexLionHart]

The Triforce shards don't send up glowing beams if you don't have the charts...