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Author Topic: Gaming Nirvana: The Nintendo Wii's Killer App, my rant about the Wii  (Read 1075 times)
Offline Jace

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« on: March 27, 2007 »

Do you all remember when the Wii’s controller was first unveiled? Everyone was talking about the possibilities for Nintendo’s new console. The “Revolution” would pave the way for innovative, interactive, intuitive gaming, and a completely new way to play video games. At the price of graphics, of course, but it’s a small price to pay. I’m sure when we all saw that controller we each imagined future titles that would utilize the Wii-remote in ways that would cause us to have more fun than we’ve ever had with a video game before. Whether that’s Metroid Prime 3 for you, Mario Galaxy, the next Resident Evil, TP/next Zelda, the next Pikmin, an awesome Wii RTS, the “lightsaber game,” or an all-new game you just imagined in your head. The list goes on and on, it’s different for everybody. But we all had something in mind.

So what did we get? What games did players everywhere receive on their Wiis? We got a long list of games that could have been made on Gamecube, Xbox, or Ps2, despite that you play with the Wii-remote. Because most developers have replaced buttons with “motions” or “gestures.” If you are sword fighting in Red Steel, and you see that your enemy is about to slash at you from the right, you hold out your dinky little dagger and make a “gesture.” Instead of physically moving your own sword in the path of your opponent’s, you shake/tilt the nunchuck, it doesn’t matter which way or how fast, and your character has now blocked that attack. All that mattered was timing. It’s virtually the same as pressing a button to block an attack, which may I remind you, is the way things were done on last-gen consoles. Developers have made performing a quick motion with the remote the same as pressing a button. And I cannot think of a single Wii game out right now not somehow incorporating the above stated idea into its gameplay.

The worst example is the TP sword controls. Shaking the remote is virtually the same as pressing the b-button repeatedly on the Gamecube controller. But you know what, that’s bearable, TP was a Gamecube game. But I expect far more for future Zelda titles, and all other future hack n’ slash Wii games.

Let me tell you what I pictured when the Wii-mote was unveiled, and have been picturing ever since. I looked at that remote and immediately pictured it as the handle of a sword. To me, that’s what the Wii-mote will work best for. I looked at the nunchuck, and saw a shield. I imagined a first-person hack n’slash battle simulation game, very much like Lord of the Rings. In the game, the Wii-mote would become your sword and the player would battle through masses of enemies in 1:1 motion. While this is a game that would fit my own personal taste best, everyone would enjoy it immensely, both the hardcore and casual gamers. This WOULD be the Nintendo Wii’s killer app. Allow me to describe it a little bit more.

Graphics & Amount of Content On-Screen
For all categories, I would expect the developer to fully push the Wii to its limits. We all saw TP, and if Wii is twice the power of Gamecube, then twice the power of Gamecube is what I expect. The opening battle would be epic. The battlefield would consist of hundreds of warriors in combat, and the game would drop the player right into the middle of all the action. But how can it show so many soldiers at once, not to mention have the player interact with so many? That is a difficult question. The last thing I would want for this game would be a DynastyWarriors-like fog of war. No, I want to see all enemies in order to retain the battles immensity and atmosphere, which is easier said than done. All I can really think of as a solution would be to program a kind of radius around the player. Every soldier within that radius can be fully interacted with and highly detailed. Everyone not in the radius is not a soldier but an animation, far less detailed and repeating the same combat animation over and over again. But we don’t mind that, they’re really too far away for us get a good look at them anyway. As for the environments, a mediocre effort will suffice, as long they are realistic-looking.

Controls & Gameplay
Like I said before, I would expect every Wii-remote movement to be accurately represented on screen. First of all, the player will need to hold the Wii-remote sideways and pointed upward, otherwise you’ll be hitting your enemy with the blunt side of your blade. Now let’s say an enemy is directly in front of you, and he swings his sword toward you from the top right. Instead of making a “blocking motion,” the player will need to physically move the Wii-mote in the path of the enemy’s sword. A “clang” will be heard, and you are now in a sword lock with your opponent. Either you or he will need to draw back your arm and strike again from another angle, just as if you were really there. Stabbing works just fine also.

The Wii-remote will replicate every motion you make exactly. Boring to read, but fun as heck to play. Also, the enemy would be detailed, so much so that if you were to strike him in the armor he would become slightly stunned (depending how hard you swing it), or not act like he had received a blow at all. However, if the player strikes him around his armor, such at his neck or under the armpit, he would begin to bleed and fall defeated, depending upon how far your sword went into his flesh.

The nunchuck would be your shield, but unfortunately can’t really sense everything like the Wii-mote can. So, in order to hold your shield up, I’d assume you’d hold Z button, and can then tilt the nunchuck to change the angle you are holding your shield to block incoming arrows or whatever. While holding Z, you could also shield bash forward by doing the same with the nunchuck to knock the enemy off-balance, but that’s about it.

It would also greatly benefit the game if the developers put a lot of effort into physics.

Story
As long as its decent, but the focus of the game would be on gameplay and action. But the player does need a good reason WHY they are fighting.

Playable Character
The colossal opening battle would serve almost as a tutorial for how to play the game. This is one of the ways the game would draw the casual gamer in, I want them to immediately recognize the scale of the game they’re about to play. The player would take on the role of one of the army’s generals. However, after that battle, the player will create and customize their own character to play with for the rest of the game. This is incredibly important to eliminate monotony in the gameplay. Much like Oblivion, upgrading your character throughout the game is essential.

Weapons
Swords, Maces, Axes, and maybe spears will be available while you play. Projectiles, such as javelins and bows, will be done with the pointer in third-person, like TP.

Wow, I didn’t think this would be that long. I apologize, and thank all who read for their patience. This is really my dream game for the Wii, and I know everyone who owns Nintendo’s console would enjoy it immensely. Developers, get cracking. Make this, or at least something close to it. It is an ambitious undertaking I know, but it’s what the Wii was designed for.
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Offline Witless

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« #1 on: March 27, 2007 »

First of all, let me get one thing straight with you, that a lot of people rant about.

It's really really hard to code and pinpoint every move of the Wiimote. It takes a considerable amount of time to get all those done bug-free. It's not virtual reality, it's motion sensitive.

While the Wii mote is capable of doing those things, it will take some time before any game gets it right. There is however, software released for programmers that will ease the job to achieve these game mechanics but up untill now, we haven't heard anything about that.

Untill 3rd party developers get the coding right, which can take months/years, we are simply going to make do with limited gestures and pointing.

And another thing, I'm not sure people are waiting for 1:1 motion control as you'd really have to be an expert swordsman or fighter to beat a game such as say, LOTR or any other game that requires complicated moves. Plus, it's tiring.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2007 by Witless » Logged
Offline lillyon92

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« #2 on: March 27, 2007 »

Your game Idea was good but the rant, come on the wii just came out and developers only just started to develop for it, it takes a long time to change why would the gaming world be any different.
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« #3 on: March 27, 2007 »

the thing just barely came out I bet there are still a bunch of things to work out and get used to.
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Offline Maladroit Thief

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« #4 on: March 27, 2007 »

Like the others stated, it's hard to make something new work.  The DS had it's flaws also at launch.  You can't set expectations too high or your bound to be let down.
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Offline Ezlo's Apprentice

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« #5 on: March 27, 2007 »

We got a long list of games that could have been made on Gamecube, Xbox, or Ps2, despite that you play with the Wii-remote.
1- The Wiimote is revolutionary technology so it is only natural that developers are going to take a while to get things truly rocking.
2- The Wii dev-kits were virtually the same as the Cube, and ultimately the console is just a jacked up Cube, so surely this isn't so shocking? Lazy development in the early stages is excuseable IMO and things will pick up soon enough.

The worst example is the TP sword controls. Shaking the remote is virtually the same as pressing the b-button repeatedly on the Gamecube controller.
Just try shaking the Wiimote like an ape with the shakes in the last level of the Cave of Ordeals and tell me it's all the same.

In the game, the Wii-mote would become your sword and the player would battle through masses of enemies in 1:1 motion.
See Witless's post, as well as my points below with a *...

While this is a game that would fit my own personal taste best, everyone would enjoy it immensely, both the hardcore and casual gamers. This WOULD be the Nintendo Wii’s killer app.
I personally can't see LotR having the same draw as LoZ, even as a killer app...

Graphics & Amount of Content On-Screen
Have to forgive me for skipping this bit but I couldn't give two hoots about graphics. Just because you can fill the screen to bursting point, doesn't mean you should.

*Like I said before, I would expect every Wii-remote movement to be accurately represented on screen.
But surely it isn't all about the Wiimote's movements. Surely your own movements need to be taken into consideration, and the Wiimote cannot do that. You'd need those little sticky pads all over you that they used on Andy Serkis to detect motion in (ironically) LotR, wouldn't they?

*Instead of making a “blocking motion,” the player will need to physically move the Wii-mote in the path of the enemy’s sword. A “clang” will be heard, and you are now in a sword lock with your opponent.
And when did the Wiimote come equipped with the necessary collision detection tech to pull this off? Oh... It didn't. That is why in TP the final showdown with Ganondorf featured that A hammering bit.

*Also, the enemy would be detailed, so much so that if you were to strike him in the armor he would become slightly stunned (depending how hard you swing it), or not act like he had received a blow at all.
From collision detection to how the Wiimote can measure strength. The accelerometer inside accounts for speed and acceleration (strangely enough), but it cannot truly judge the strength in your arms as you deal these blows. And then of course you'd need to counter-calculate your strength with the opponents strength. Messy...

*Projectiles, such as javelins...
If you can explain how that one works without letting go of the Wiimote (lord knows people struggle enough to keep hold of the thing as it is), have a cookie.
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Offline Jace

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« #6 on: March 27, 2007 »

Thank you all for reading and commenting, I appreciate it. Sorry for my jumbled thoughts and absence of quotes below.

Although you all seem to have the impression that I want this game to be made right away and start playing it tomorrow. No, that would definitely be expecting too much, and I don't. I understand that developers are still getting used to the Wii. But at least some sort of project could be listed at ign, where developers are at least trying to make a first-person-hack-n-slash. Dragon Quest Swords? Samurai Warriors Wave? I don't think so.

When I said the controls for projectiles, such as javelins, being the same as TP, I meant it. No throwing motion required, just aim and hit b.

You can't see a LoTR game as a killer app? Neither can I, because this game would not take place in the LoTR universe, but in a similar one, I guess. My post wasn't really focusing on the setting aspect of the game.

When you say just because you can fill the screen up doesn't mean you should, you're right... but in this case, I think it would be very beneficial. You're in the middle of a freaking battle, why not feel like you are?

I don't expect the game too perfectly replicate your arm, but I do expect it to perfectly replicate the pommel of your sword. 1:1 motion. Is that really too much to ask? As for the collisions of blades and sword locks, I have confidence developers will eventually figure it out.

When I was talking about how hard you swing the remote, I really mean how fast. Of course it can't calculate strength.

You'd have to be an expert swordsman to beat the game? Come on, give yourself some credit. You're fighting AI, not a human opponent. The enemy's movement wouldn't be lightning fast, they would swing their weapons at a rate fast enough for you to block and counter, although some parts may be challenging, like bosses. And you say its tiring? Wow... of all the things that could go wrong, that was the last thing I was worried about. Toughen up, dude. I doubt "My arm is tired and it hurts!" is the first thing we all think of when we are physically stabbing an enemy right in front of us through his stomach in the middle of an epic battle.


This would be the game showing everyone that the Wii is not a gimmick. You all probably think my expectations are too high, even for later in the console's life, but if we all place our expectations too low, what kind of games will we get?

Really not trying to shut you guys up here, although I may sound like it. Thanks for posting.



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Offline Witless

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« #7 on: March 28, 2007 »

You'd have to be an expert swordsman to beat the game? Come on, give yourself some credit. You're fighting AI, not a human opponent. The enemy's movement wouldn't be lightning fast, they would swing their weapons at a rate fast enough for you to block and counter, although some parts may be challenging, like bosses.
I don't think people have a) the room to swing their arms around without hitting anything. b) have the physic that enables them to play the game more than 30 minutes.

Seriously, try swinging your arms continuesly for more than 30 minutes. Or play Wii Boxing. ( And Wii boxing isn't even 1:1 motion. )
« Last Edit: March 28, 2007 by Witless » Logged
Offline Jace

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« #8 on: March 28, 2007 »

I actually have played Wii boxing with my friends for about 30 minutes. It's not that bad. And I'm sure most homes do have space to move your arm around.
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