Best Zelda Ever

[Assault on Mind]

Well I can't choose so I'm doing this:

3D console: Ocarina of Time
2D cosole: ALttP
3D handheld: Not here yet is it? But I'll find this post and fix it when one comes out.
2D Handheld: The Minish Cap for it's orginality and story. Twas a bit short though.

[Rew]

Calling TP an Ocarina of Time remake is like calling Ocarina of Time an A Link to the Past remake.  There's a bunch of similarities, but it isn't a remake by any wild stretch.

Thank you! I grow so tired of people calling TP just an OoT 2.0. But OoT has nothing comparable to the Twilight Realm or the ability to transform into a wolf. In fact, I'd go so far as to say that OoT has more in common with LttP than with TP. Not that much more of course, but a bit.

[Ezlo]

TP is not a remake of OoT. People should have noticed by this time that it takes stuff from every single Zelda-game so far.

Since OoT took everything from all the games before it, you can easaly think TP took from OoT when it acually took from Alttp, for example.

[Kyle]

Yeah, if Twilight Princess was actually "OoT 2.0", then everyone would probably be calling it the undisputed best Zelda ever, not ranking it below even Wind Waker. I would rather call it an attempted OoT remake. It does capture many elements from the original, namely in the storyline, as well as the two-world concept and two different forms of Link. However, it does not pull them off nearly as well as OoT did.

The Twilight, for instance, is gone after the third dungeon and feels more like a ploy to lengthen the game, compared to travelling back and forth through time. Wolf Link takes a backseat to his standard form, and would be pretty much useless without the short Twilight sections. Though Young Link wasn't used as much as his adult form in OoT, he can at least open doors. As for the storyline, it did bear quite a resemblance to OoT, and was considerably more interesting, until the last dungeon.

As you can tell, I still believe that OoT is unmatched, and I don't quite understand why people are offended by the "OoT 2.0" remarks, as though a remake is unwelcome. What's wrong with taking the best Zelda game and making it better?

[Rew]

I just consider TP a fine game on its own, not a mere copycat of another game, no matter how great.

[JordAnime]

does capture many elements from the original, namely in the storyline, as well as the two-world concept and two different forms of Link. However, it does not pull them off nearly as well as OoT did.

Twilight Princess was about Link, a young man, saving Hyrule from the threat of the Twilight Realm and King Zant; after that objective was achieved, it was about reassembling the Twilight Mirror to confront Zant, and retrieve the fused Shadows so that Midna might have the strength to aid you in defeating Ganon. 

That last part seemed kinda tacked on but lets compare the plot of Ocarina of Time:

Ocarina of Time was about Link, a child from the Kokiri Forest, and his quest, bestowed by Princess Zelda, to find the three spirtual stones to safegaurd the Triforce from Ganonondorf, who inevitbly cause Link to meet Zelda by killing the Deku Tree, the being that sent Link to Hyrule.  Link collects the stones; however, Ganon makes his move on Hryule causing Zelda to flee, however, during her flight she gives Link the Ocarina of Time.  In conjuction with the Spiritual Stones, Link opens the Door of Time which leads to the Master Sword, upon pulling the sword out, he is sent to the Temple of Light, wherein he has aged seven years.  In that time Ganon has taken over Hyrule with the Triforce of Power.  Link's now tasked to awakening the remaining five sages who will help Link destroy Ganon.  He must travel through time to achieve his objective; once all the sages are awakened, Zelda reveals herself as the seventh sage; however, she's captured by Ganon.  In a final confrontation in his tower, Link slays Ganon and is sent back to his own time.  According to Aonuma, Ganon is apperently jailed and sentanced to execution upon his return and that's where TP picks up.

Those two storylines are completely different, and one's a bit more pithy(Twilight Princess).  Still, once again, there's really no similarties in the storyline.

[Faceless]

Pithy's not the word I'd use to describe TP's stories.

It had all the failings of your typical Anime. It started slowly, started to build up and became briefly engrossing before totally failing to conclude well. As a game this problem was compounded by the fact that the game's inhabitants didn't adapt to their world, and one has to wonder if Nintendo decided to throw the idea that the people didn't remember their experiences in the Twilight Hyrule to save themselves some time/effort.

Unlike your Typical Anime there wasn't much character developement.

[JordAnime]

It had all the failings of your typical Anime. It started slowly, started to build up and became briefly engrossing before totally failing to conclude well

What would you qualify as a typical anime?

If anything it started slowly, built up quickly, then slowed down, then once again built up.

As a game this problem was compounded by the fact that the game's inhabitants didn't adapt to their world and one has to wonder if Nintendo decided to throw the idea that the people didn't remember their experiences in the Twilight Hyrule to save themselves some time/effort.

Huh?  Um the people didn't realize they were consumed by Twilight, that's the whole point. 

Anyway, I watched an interview with Peter Molyneux who said something I really liked, he said that often times people confuse a lot of dialogue with good storyline.  TP's story did feel like it was missing something, but the story telling was good nonetheless, the only shortcoming was that I think Ganon didn't need to be in it.

[Faceless]

Typical Anime would be any number of the 26 episode limited series out there.

Not remembering wasn't the whole point. It was a decision Nintendo made, and had no real significance to the story whatsoever. If they don't remember - fine - but time still passed and the npcs should have mentioned a gap in their memory, or at least have had some vague understanding that something weird had happened. There was nothing, and the player felt unrewarded.

The giant pyramid around Hyrule Castle is an example of the people not seeming to have any knowledge of what's going on in their world, and it really hurt the immersion.

The events that spurred Link into action (the kidnapping of the children) went unexplained, and why was Link transformed into a wolf when Ganondorf and Zelda retained their human forms?

Twilight Princess felt like a collection of ideas that were thrown together without much effort to make them work together. The story was underdeveloped, and the character developement was almost non-existant.

Ganondorf's personality didn't reconcile with what we knew of him from OoT, Zelda was a nonentity, and Midna's character took a predictable path in a straight line from point A to B without any real exploration into the intricacies of her psyche; probably because there were none.

There was a sense of something dark about her, and that she might betray Link, but as you were playing, waiting for something to happen, nothing did.

On top of all that, the game was also ridiculously easy.

Twilight Princess was a thoroughly disappointing game for me, but at the same time I can understand why some people liked it so much. I still think they're wrong to do so though.

It felt like for every good point about the game there was another that cancelled it out. The bosses were massive and would have been epic if they weren't so easy. The overworld was huge, but empty and poorly mapped. The new items were cool, but had very little use outside of their respective dungeons. Lure fishing was excellently implemented, but there wasn't enough variety in fish. Wiimote aiming was great, but wrist wiggling was uninspired and there was no shooting gallery.

Twilight Princess was average at best.

[Hyruleansoldier]

Though I quite agree with most of the above aspects, I would suggest to keep this kind of talk for the TP bash thread, where many people will gladly jump your bandwagon ^^

[Wind Slasher]

Handheld:Minish Cap.

Console:WindWaker/Four swords.

[Be_yourself]

Twilight Princess felt like a collection of ideas that were thrown together without much effort to make them work together. The story was underdeveloped, and the character developement was almost non-existant.
Midna's character took a predictable path in a straight line from point A to B without any real exploration into the intricacies of her psyche; probably because there were none.

There was a sense of something dark about her, and that she might betray Link, but as you were playing, waiting for something to happen, nothing did.

i agree with the other stuff you said, but really...picking on Midnas character is a bit unfair...she was one of,if not the best developed character i have seen in the series, sure she was not amazingly deep, but since when does that really effect Zelda games that much, in my view Midna had a decent level of development. i just didn't like her coz she told me how to do everything...

although i agree with the "sense of something dark that never developed"

[JordAnime]

Typical Anime would be any number of the 26 episode limited series out there.

I dunno, there's some pretty amazing 26 episode series, like Cowboy Bebop, for instance.  FMA had three seasons I believe and was really good.  I think you can't cluster into a solitary group, there really isn't a rule when it comes to these kind of things.

Not remembering wasn't the whole point. It was a decision Nintendo made, and had no real significance to the story whatsoever.]they don't remember - fine - but time still passed and the npcs should have mentioned a gap in their memory, or at least have had some vague understanding that something weird had happened.There was nothing, and the player felt unrewarded.

I said they weren't cognizant of being trapped in the Twilight Realm, there's a difference.  Anyway, would an NPC saying "Boy that was really weird" made you fell better about the plot?  I mean there's countless RPGs out there wherein the NPCs say the most asinine things and at the end of the day, it'd be better if they just said nothing. 

The giant pyramid around Hyrule Castle is an example of the people not seeming to have any knowledge of what's going on in their world, and it really hurt the immersion.

Hmmm, I'll agree with you there that it was a little odd, but then, what would have happened?  Would it have made you feel better if every NPC said "Boy, it's sure weird that there's a huge prism around Hyrule Castle"?  Yeah, that'd have been REALLY immersive.

The events that spurred Link into action (the kidnapping of the children) went unexplained, and why was Link transformed into a wolf when Ganondorf and Zelda retained their human forms?

Renado saved the children. 

I guess Zelda just rolls like that, actually wasn't that part of the deal with Zant?  And of course, Ganon's the puppet master of the whole the situation. 

The story was underdeveloped, and the character developement was almost non-existant.

Frankly, sometimes less is more when it comes to story.  Play any other RPG and you'll understand what I mean.  Unless you LIKE overuse of symbolism and metaphors.  I mean like, Tales of Symphonia, if every character didn't provide some kind of lesson, it just wasn't a character.  As for character development,it was largely the character's around Link that developed.  Midna, specifically, went through the most.  Illa, Colin and then Link, who develops as he ever does; through your own eyes.

There was a sense of something dark about her, and that she might betray Link, but as you were playing, waiting for something to happen, nothing did.

I only ever did get the impression a few times, each time a fused shadow was collected, but by the third dungeon, with that excessively creepy cutscene, I thought that it would be Link that would be corrupted by the dark power or something. 

Ganondorf's personality didn't reconcile with what we knew of him from OoT, Zelda was a nonentity, and Midna's character took a predictable path in a straight line from point A to B without any real exploration into the intricacies of her psyche; probably because there were none.

I think you're thinking too much, Ganon and Zelda seemed really brief players, which is my main complaint, but ultimately, that was a choice, not a fallacy of development.  Zelda's role is to be Midna's foil.  Zelda stays with her people and sacrifices herself to save Midna.  Ganon, well he's just mean.  As for Midna, she goes from being a self obsessed creature to a character that's willing to sacrifice herself for others; she risks herself to save Link and Zelda from Ganon, and eventually destroys the Twilight Mirror, severing all contact from her friend, and possible love interest, Link.  Honestly, I don't know what else you can ask for.

On top of all that, the game was also ridiculously easy.

Compared to some other games, yes, but if you had never played a Zelda game before then it'd probably take longer to figure out than if you'd play Ocarina of Time.  And there were a lot of brain teasing puzzles, it's just the rate of death wasn't very high.

It's the hardest 3D Zelda, I'll put it to you that way. 

Twilight Princess was average at best.

You're average at best.

Seriously, carp, carp, carp, that's all I ever hear out of this community.  And when the Zelda game comes out that is the antithesis of TP you'll all bitch that it was overly developed, too big, and explained too much.  I think people like you just have a tenancy to never be satisfied. 

[Faceless]

You're average at best.

You know little to nothing about me. At least I provide a reason for my opinions.

Your typical 26 episode Anime series is obviously exclusive of the best and worst series out there because they are by their very nature not typical.

Twilight Princess isn't without its redeeming points, but it's a far cry from the best Zelda ever, and even further from the best game ever. That's what this thread is about, and that's what some people are claiming. Am I not entitled to post my counter-argument?

Considering how long Twilight Princess spent in the pipeline, and the sheer weight of talent that was behind it, I (and others should have) expected much much more from the game.

You clearly have less expectations than I do, but being sarcastic in your dismissal of valid points isn't becoming.

Of course I don't want random uninspired dialogue. I want much more, and it wasn't beyond Nintendo to deliver. Nothing about this game pushed any new boundaries unlike past entries into the series; it was derivative in almost every aspect.

Sorry for wanting more from this series.