Bringing back the draft

[Sunrie]

Well, it's been in the news, so why not talk about it?  

Rep. Charles Rangel, D-N.Y, has stated that he will introduce legislation to reinsate the military draft.  Why?  Because he feels that if there was a draft, we wouldn't be  fighting terrorism nor be fighting in Iraq.  His reasoning behind it?  If memebers of congress were to have family serve, they would think twice before doing any kind of fighting.

What are your thoughts on the situation.  Why do you believe in support or unsupport for the issue.  Statements such as, "Well, I just feel..." aren't helpful in your position, so have some meat to your arguement.



Personally, I am against it.  While it may give larger numbers in the armed forces, overall the power of those forces weakens.  Why have someone who wants absolutely nothing to do with the military be forced into the military?  People of stated mind set most often produce little help to their battle buddies when on the field.

I would like to see a variation of this, in which after high school people are sent through a mandatory basic training.  However, the difference is that after BCT, the person is given the option of leaving the armed forces to persue a civilian lifestyle or continue on through a contract with the military.  Granted, I at least understand that is not the most feasable of options even still.

[Negoogunogumbar]

I'm against the draft because I don't believe people should be forced into anything. Some people are opposed to killing people and others might not be behind the war their fighting in.

At least there is enough space in Canada. I'm sure they can accommodate a few more people if there is a draft.

[Witless]

I'm for a draft to be honest. It helped during WWII, so why not.

I think that during a war, people should be drafted to take part in the military and protect their country.

[Bidet to you sir]

As a rule I am for Conscription/drafting whatever you want to call it, but only when your nationstate is in danger in which its borders could be breached.

I'm for a draft to be honest. It helped during WWII, so why not.

I think that during a war, people should be drafted to take part in the military and protect their country.

Exactly, unless there is a fully blown conflict right on your doorstep you don't need a draft, if the US and Britain had to pull out of Iraq tomorrow due to some twist of fate where we're all of a sudden outgunned, our forces would get back to our respective countries and think "well I'm glad we're out of that ****hole" and "it'll sure take a hell of a force to get to us".
WW2 was different, Japan could fly east to the US and Germany could stretch all over Europe with ease.
At the moment the only people you could say we're at conflict with that can attack our borders are Terrorists etc, and well that's more of an invisible war.

[Fleamo]

At least there is enough space in Canada. I'm sure they can accommodate a few more people if there is a draft.

Actually, I'm pretty sure we signed a treaty with Canada saying they get to send our pinko commie deserters back to us.

70% of Americans are against the draft.  About 430/435 of Congressmen are against the draft.  In 2003, Rangel put forward a law concerning conscription of some kind for people age 18 to 26. It was defeated 402-2.  

In short, no way this passes.  If we were in a war like WWII which the majority of people supported, it might have.

A draft as a deterrant to war is also a terrible idea.  Once the draft is in place, the rationale becomes "We have such a big army, why don't we use it?"

I would rather see us pull out immediately from Iraq and see the entire country get thrown into some crazy civil war than require thousands of our country's future who might (and in all probability, do) oppose the war get killed.  If it becomes a question of Iraqi lives against American lives, I believe I know where our government's loyalty should be.

As a rule I am for Conscription/drafting whatever you want to call it, but only when your nationstate is in danger in which its borders could be breached.

This too.

[Nocturne]

I'm against the draft because I don't believe people should be forced into anything. Some people are opposed to killing people and others might not be behind the war their fighting in.

At least there is enough space in Canada. I'm sure they can accommodate a few more people if there is a draft.

You can't use another nation as a place to run away to. Eventually that option would be removed...and then what? Go to another nation? Eventually you'll have nowhere to go. Then what would you do?

[Haru to Ashura]

I pretty much agree with Zim.  I believe that the government should be allowed to draft only in cases where our homeland security is being currently and seriously threatened.  Forcing people to in die in battles for foreign cause on foreign soil is bull****.

Though I know a draft isn't happening any time soon, if a draft was OK'd for this war, I'd see if as a precursor to the gradual failure of American democracy.

I think that during a war, people should be drafted to take part in the military and protect their country.

Would you honestly consider what Bush is doing is protecting our country?  If anything, he's endangering it by creating more enemies.  

You can't use another nation as a place to run away to. Eventually that option would be removed...and then what? Go to another nation? Eventually you'll have nowhere to go. Then what would you do?

Only idiots ditch a draft by going to a border country.  You see, the smart ones cross the ocean.

But seriously, if there was a draft these days...with population surge and the fact that no one supports this war, it would be impossible to keep track of each and every draft dodger.

[Fleamo]

You can't use another nation as a place to run away to. Eventually that option would be removed...and then what? Go to another nation? Eventually you'll have nowhere to go. Then what would you do?

What?

As long as not every country in the world got into a war, there's going to be at least one country at peace.  Also, you can't be drafted in Canada if you're not a Canadian.  You can use another nation as a place to run away to, as long as they haven't signed an agreement saying you can't, like Canada and the US have.  But he could run to England and be fine.

[Nocturne]

What?

As long as not every country in the world got into a war, there's going to be at least one country at peace.  Also, you can't be drafted in Canada if you're not a Canadian.  You can use another nation as a place to run away to, as long as they haven't signed an agreement saying you can't, like Canada and the US have.  But he could run to England and be fine.

It's not realistic to say that just because another country hasn't signed an agreement saying you can't run there, that they would just idly sit back and watch as dodgers travelled over to their country. Eventually the country would do something about the issue.

[Enuf3]

Personally.. I think if a draft is brought forth, there would be total chaos. The American people these days wont put up with that ****. If the government does something like that, I believe it's people will go into a total rage and form some kind of rebellion. I know that sounds corny, but that is what I can see happening. Personally, I would join any rebellion like that in a second. NO ONE will tell me where to go, or what to do.. Most of all, no one will ever make me kill another person. Sorry, but I will not kill for my own government.. I will not kill for George Bush.. Cause frankly, they are all screwed up. I wont fight for them either.

I would fight for the American people however.. but see, the true American would not support something like a draft. It's evil in my eyes. We would fight against our own government before fighting for them... especially for this bull**** they are pulling in the world. I'm just saying... A draft = CHAOS

[The Tao Of Bill]

Personally.. I think if a draft is brought forth, there would be total chaos. The American people these days wont put up with that ****. If the government does something like that, I believe it's people will go into a total rage and form some kind of rebellion. I know that sounds corny, but that is what I can see happening. Personally, I would join any rebellion like that in a second. NO ONE will tell me where to go, or what to do.. Most of all, no one will ever make me kill another person. Sorry, but I will not kill for my own government.. I will not kill for George Bush.. Cause frankly, they are all screwed up. I wont fight for them either.

I would fight for the American people however.. but see, the true American would not support something like a draft. It's evil in my eyes. We would fight against our own government before fighting for them... especially for this bull**** they are pulling in the world. I'm just saying... A draft = CHAOS

Americans are too fat and lazy to rebel.

Anyhoo...

I think there should be a draft for every war. Why? Because it will make congress think twice before declareing war on another country and we would only declare war when we are actually threatened.

[Enuf3]

Are you kidding... the American government would send its people to war without a second of hesitation. And you are saying that you would risk sending these people to war to try and show the government how bad it is? They should already know how bad it is without risking any person's life.

[The Tao Of Bill]

Are you kidding... the American government would send its people to war without a second of hesitation. And you are saying that you would risk sending these people to war to try and show the government how bad it is? They should already know how bad it is without risking any person's life.

The leverage is that their sons are also forced to sign up for selective service. They must only be able to go to war if they are willing to throw their sons into it. The American Government is not a bunch of blood thirsty criminals. Most of them are family men. They are human beings like the rest of us. And they would be just as worried about their children as we are.

[Enuf3]

That may be true for some of the poeple in the American government. But come on, they've released a draft once before... and they'll do it again if given the chance. (Not that I have to worry about being taken away.. seeing as how the military already told me I'm useless with my cracked vertebrae) I just dont think that bringing forth a draft and risking the lives of innocent people just to say "Hey guys, War is bad... dont do it.. okay?" is just dumb. I wouldnt risk a single life to try and make a point to the government.

[The Tao Of Bill]

That may be true for some of the poeple in the American government. But come on, they've released a draft once before... and they'll do it again if given the chance. (Not that I have to worry about being taken away.. seeing as how the military already told me I'm useless with my cracked vertebrae) I just dont think that bringing forth a draft and risking the lives of innocent people just to say "Hey guys, War is bad... dont do it.. okay?" is just dumb. I wouldnt risk a single life to try and make a point to the government.

So you'd prefer to let the poor do our fighting while the privledged sit back and watch?

Draft or no draft America is going to have wars. And the people in charge will be more willing to go to war if they don't have to worry about their loved ones going over seas. A manditory draft for all wars would mean the government will think twice about starting wars. Especially ones with countries that pose no imediate threat to us or our allies.

[Fleamo]

I think there should be a draft for every war. Why? Because it will make congress think twice before declareing war on another country and we would only declare war when we are actually threatened.

I don't think that would happen.  I think we would have a huge army, and then people would think we should use it more because we're spending so much money on it.  

Speaking of which, it would cost a lot of money to have a draft, and thus a large(r) military.  Would be a lot cheaper to just...not be so loose with our military.  Just kind of have a policy change or something?  Eh?

The leverage is that their sons are also forced to sign up for selective service. They must only be able to go to war if they are willing to throw their sons into it. The American Government is not a bunch of blood thirsty criminals. Most of them are family men. They are human beings like the rest of us. And they would be just as worried about their children as we are.

John McCain's son got his legs blown off in the war.  John McCain is trying to get us to put MORE people into harm's way in Iraq.  

And for families not like that, there are other ways out.  

So you'd prefer to let the poor do our fighting while the privledged sit back and watch?

No, we want volunteers to do our fighting for us.

[The Tao Of Bill]

I don't think that would happen.  I think we would have a huge army, and then people would think we should use it more because we're spending so much money on it.  

we would only have a huge army during times of war. We are still spending draft related fees currently but they don't amount to much. Just a letter in the mail. Not sure if you are 18 yet, Fleamo, but if you are then I'm sure you got a letter in the mail demanding you to sign up for selective service. That's you signing up for the draft. That would be the same letter you would get if we used the draft in all wars. The only extra fees and huge armys would come after a war has already started.

Speaking of which, it would cost a lot of money to have a draft, and thus a large(r) military.  Would be a lot cheaper to just...not be so loose with our military.  Just kind of have a policy change or something?  Eh?

Like I said. It would only cost money if we started a war. And I agree. It should be extra incentive to not have war in the first place. As opposed to invading a country that poses no threat to us.

John McCain's son got his legs blown off in the war.  John McCain is trying to get us to put MORE people into harm's way in Iraq.  

John McCain isn't the only decision maker in congress. That's the beauty of checks and balances. Although the president doesn't seem to understand what checks and balances is.

And for families not like that, there are other ways out.  

What do you mean by this?

No, we want volunteers to do our fighting for us.

Which happens to be mostly poor people

[Fleamo]

Not sure if you are 18 yet, Fleamo, but if you are then I'm sure you got a letter in the mail demanding you to sign up for selective service. That's you signing up for the draft. That would be the same letter you would get if we used the draft in all wars.

Heh, I didn't, but because it would be illegal not to sign up within 30 days, I signed up anyway.  On the intarwebs.

The money comes in when we have to train and pay them, which yes, would be after the war starts, but without an active draft that would be much less.

John McCain isn't the only decision maker in congress. That's the beauty of checks and balances. Although the president doesn't seem to understand what checks and balances is.

I think "people won't want to send their sons to battle" is a very feeble excuse, and it's obviously not always the case, what with McCain and I assume others.  And that's really the only excuse you have going right now.

We obviously don't NEED a draft, because we don't have one right now.  If we NEEDED more people, we could pay better wages.  

What do you mean by this?

For families who don't want to send their sons to war, there are other loopholes.

Which happens to be mostly poor people

And it's mostly white too.  I don't care.  They volunteered.  They want to do it.

[neal_672]

Bit late to the thread but that politician is clearly not thinking things through. There is no way the draft would work in this day and age, certainly not in a "war" like the one on Terrorism, i mean if it's ABSOLUTELY neccessary to protect homeland security then maybe, but only maybe, i'd agree with it's initiation. But to fight "terrorism" a non-physical enemy i fail to see how i could work unless they all bunk up togther in one country. They wouldn't stand for being sent to Iraq.

Some people just cannot kill others, simple as that, i know i wouldn't be able to.

[Sunrie]

I wasn't poor and I served, so you can't say that.  Most people I knew didn't come from poor nor stupid families.  Failed.



Would you honestly consider what Bush is doing is protecting our country? If anything, he's endangering it by creating more enemies.

You don't create terrorists by fighting terrorists.  You don't create bullies by doing something about bullies.  We weren't fighting terrorists the way we are now in 1993 when the Trade Center was bombed.  We weren't fighting terrorists the way we are now in 2001 when they murdered 600 more people than the amount killed in Pearl Harbor.

You fail.

---------------
You know, when Japan attacked Pearl Harbor, we went after Japan, Germany and Italy (who was forced into the battle on Germany's side in the north).  No one started screaming how we were not keeping our eye on the ball by attacking their allies like people are now.  If people around today were around in WWII, they would be crying that we should only go after Japan, which would have been the WAY wrong thing to do.

Bush has done the right thing by taking the fight to the terrorists.