The Draining of the Great Sea in TWW

[Fluesopp]

An earthquake happened in PH many times as Bellum created them.
The most damage it caused was a broken bridge.
And the whole PH world is, like the Kolohint island, a dream created by a whale.
(Hm... Do we have a Marin in PH?)

[LexLionHart]

There is no reason why people would suddenly find a new place and just happen to call it Hyrule and get all the ladmarks correct. That makes no sense.

Which is why it's good that the 2D games share, at most, 4 locales with the 3D ones.

Death Mountain
Lake Hylia
Kakariko Village
Lost Woods

It's clear that the names "Lake Hylia" (FSA-ALttP), "Kakariko Village"(OoT-TP, OoT-FSA), and "Lost Woods" (OoT-FSA/ALttP) are applied to multiple locales throughout the geographical progression of the series. So that leaves us with, effectively, only one: Death Mountain. Which, since it's a mountain, and since the mountains of the great sea are islands...

Everything else is basically game-exclusive, and PH is the only game in the series to share a previously LoZ-AoL-exclusive locale...

[Fluesopp]

And which is that locale?

But what are you trying to say? That the death mountain is the same in every game?
And as a reminder.. The world is not as small as you see it in the game, as everything is scaled down to a more reasonable size.
Why?
We had relative big fields in TP, and TWW and what was the most boring thing to do? Crossing the fields. If they had realy made the game so immense that you had to use a real day to cross, it wouldn't have been fun.
And while we uses only some minutes to cross the fields, Link does it on almost a whole day. Everything is scaled down.
My guess is that the OoT Hyrule is about as big as Utha (the state).
And TP Hyrule is about the same size, only not that downscaled.
Hey.. It lives less than 100 people there!
And a curiosity: In Oblivion, there are more human enemies than there are allies. And the main enemy group is about the size of a town..

I believe more the Mangas when it comes to distances (Link almost faints as he crosses the Hyrule Field withouth food).
Makes sense.

[Grimmyv]

Utha, what a great state!  Oh, you meant Utah, sorry...

That is a very good point about scale in the games.  It seems that the scale of TMC was very small, espeically since you can cross the entire kingdome from Link's house to Hyrule castle in about a minute or less.  It seems the only thing we can use when comparing one map to another is the relative position of landmarks in relation to each other and not the distances between said landmarks.  Even then, the 2D maps are bound to be less "accurate" than the 3D maps since the 2D games have to fit all of Hyrule into a small rectangle which would skew the distance and position of all landmarks.  Even between OoT and TP, the two games which should have the most accurate maps of Hyrule, we have many discrepencies.  There can only be one conclusion...

The creators are LAZY and don't care. 

Either that, or Hyrule is REALLY magical and landmarks can change locations quite easily, including whole countries flooding overnight and islands and continents suddenly appearing.

[Drizzt]

That is some damn good coincidence that 5 names are remembered (you forgot Hyrule). I can't believe you honestly expect a country to just emerge from the ocean. It's impossible. These things just don't happen, in fantasy or not. So what if some myths have an ocean disapearing? The only time that happened through history is when God flooded and then unflooded the world. That time though, he didn't want to seal anything. He just wanted to get rid of the evil.

But Zelda has a new civilization coming into being. There is no reason to destroy that.

[Fairy penguin]

Looking at what Drizzt has written, I feel I must expand on it. I've actually seen this argumant at Zelda Legacy from Azure Kite, but I think it should be brought here.

If the ocean disapeared, even if it took thousands of years, people would die. We saw fishing as the main scource of food in TWW. But if there were no fish how would they feed themselves? Sure, farming seems like a good idea. Too bad they don't know how. Seriously, how would they know? They live on miniscule islands. Far too small to farm. We saw very few animals. Pretty much just pigs, and those are kept as pets. So that gets rid of farming.

Hunting also seems impossible, as I've already said how few animals there are. Really, they depend on the ocean. Losing it would mean the end of humanity, the Rito, and the Gorons, the Zora(I still believe they're alive).

All life comes from the ocean. Destroy it and you kill nealry everything. A few worms and talkign trees and some gulls. Monsters would kill each other for food with since their leaders are gone. So it really is moret important than a lot of people believe.

And how would it disapear? I've already shown many erasons why it's impossible and I've just shown what would happen.

[Grimmyv]

I guess we'll just have to wait for the PH sequel, assuming there will be one. 

So, what does everybody have against magic trees?

Going back to FP's arguement about the people of the Great Sea starving to death because they don't know how to farm...well, what happened when the Flood first happened and all those towns people and farmers had to hike up to the mountains?  How many fishermen were there in Hyrule?  I remember one guy who fished, or more like rented out his fishing rod.  So...did he or his descendents teach all the other people on the isolated islands to fish?  What about Ganon's quote about the sea being dead and yielding no fish? (sure PH shows fish in the sea, but that's in a different area)   Were those pigs really just pets? 

And remember, the goddesses could easily undo the flood if they believed there was no longer a reason to keep all that water around.  After Ganon's death perhaps the flood would gradually lower.  What's keeping all that water covering that land anyway?   Where did it come from?  Did the goddesses just create a whole bunch of water out of nothing?  What about the water cycle?  Would real world science even pertain to these games?

TWW-PH-LoZ-AoL.  Is it really THAT scary?

[LexLionHart]

So what if some myths have an ocean disapearing? The only time that happened through history is when God flooded and then unflooded the world. That time though, he didn't want to seal anything. He just wanted to get rid of the evil.

The world was ORIGINALLY flooded to seal away an evil; the world was COMPLETELY flooded to destroy it.

[Grimmyv]

Where was it said that the entire "world" on which Hyrule is set was flooded?  I thought only the one kingdom of Hyrule was sealed away in time and water put on top of that.  As far was we know other countries like Holodrum and Labryna were not affected at all.  In a magical world, anything is possible.  oh, and did anyone notice that after the barrier protecting ancient Hyrule was broken and all that water rained down and destroyed the old kingdom that the sea level of the Great Sea stayed the same?  You would think that there was some drop in sea level, seeing that there was ALOT of dry land under the sea and the barrier seemed to be at least a half mile above the ground.  And speaking of sea level, Hyrule seems to be flooded under alot of water, perhaps a mile deep.  Where did all that water come from?  Did Hyrule's elevation actual fall as well as being flooded, or did the world wide sea level rise thousands of feet?  Hyrule's mountains don't seem nearly as numerous to account for all the islands of the great sea, and there's no way that any part of hyrule was as tall as Death Mountain, yet all those islands imply that many of Hyrule's mountains were almost exactly the same height.  Something must have happened geologically in combination with the flood to account for this. 

Oh, and don't forget about magic.  If there can be a barrier at the bottom of the sea miles across in size then there just might be other barriers around the Great Sea protecting other countries. 

[Fairy penguin]

If its a fishless sea, hwo is Outset a fishing village? How would they feed themselves if they couldn't fish? It's not hard to take some food with you up the mountains. They were refugees after all. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EfHe03A8_0I

I'm taking an estimated guess and asying the goddesses did make new water. Theres no way they just took all the water from the rest of the world and just flooded Hyrule. When the barrier disapeared, it looked like new water was being made their as well. And even if it wasn't, if the whole planet is covered in water, how much difference is it really going to make? Also, if you look past the barrier, you can see more water beyond that. That shows us that more than Hyrule is covered in water. Otherwise you could drop off the ocean (unless the KoRL) stops you. Even if he did, you could see a dropoff.

Other barriers? The one around Hyrule was too stop Ganon. Other peopl ecoudl have gone to other mountains. Also, about people not knowing

Lex, whe was the world flooded to seal evil? If the goddesses wanted to kill nearly everything, then they'd unflood the world.

About the fisher guy, it's obvious other people fished. Ordon has people fishing. I know its in an alternate timeline, but I'm using it because it shows other people know how to fish.

[Grimmyv]

Maybe there IS a magical drop-off in the ocean just over the horizon where the KoRL stops ya.  But PH makes it unlikely.  Speaking of PH, it shows Gorons living on a couple islands.  Are those islands that the Gorons fled to when Death Mountain was flooded?  Or are those islands the original location of the Goron race?  What about Holodrum and Labrynna?  There's Gorons everywhere!  Is there any way we can piece together a migration history in between the games?

Anyway, getting back to the Youtube quotes:  It is said that the gods chose who would lead the people to the mountaintops.  I guess that means they chose people who could fish and build houses and raise pigs.  Even though we never saw pigs in OoT (or PH).  Maybe Ganon said what he did about the sea not having any fish because the gerudo were poor fishermen (fisherwomen), being from the desert and all.  Oh, and the video says the gods made it rain, so I guess they either sucked all the water vapor from the atmosphere or simply created the water high about hyrule as rain.  There is no mention of "floodgates" being open like in the Bible. 

[Fairy penguin]

Water= most likely made by gods. Very likely.
PH= wasn't that an alternate demension?
Oracles= probably at the same elevation Hyrule was at before it drowned.
gorons=(TWW ones) nearly extinct. PH(if it is the GS)= making a comeback. YAY! Goron islands= origins? Maybe. It doesn't matter.

[hello_echoes]

Ok, I just have to put my two cents in this thread. I just want to let everyone know that when Ganondorf was talking about the "no fish" deal, he was talking FIGURATIVELY.  Meaning, that it was a METAPHOR. Of course there were actual fish in the sea!>_< Heck, one popped out of the water everytime we needed an addition to our maps! Ganondorf speaks very figuratively, especially in WW. Ok...just so everybody is clear on that.

[Robotech Master]

Everything else is basically game-exclusive, and PH is the only game in the series to share a previously LoZ-AoL-exclusive locale...

Lex, what would that locale be? I haven't played PH yet so this is very intriguing to me.

[Grimmyv]

I haven't finished PH yet but the Goron Island bares a resemblance to Maze Island from AoL.

[Fairy penguin]

How big a resemblance?

[Grimmyv]

Actually there's another island that bares a great resemblance to Maze Island from AoL and is even named such.  The entire island is a maze, but it's more like a mini game.

[Fairy penguin]

Are there any other islands really close to it that look like AoL? Because if there aren't, then that really just makes it a random island. BTW, how many islands are in PH?

[LexLionHart]

The entire northeastern sector, in my opinion, looks like the world of AoL, except obviously on a different scale, with the islands spaced out more.

[Grimmyv]

There's like 16 islands and a whole bunch of rocks, most of the rocks being the form of rock walls or reef/barrier islands.  The Maze Island is in the NE of the sea, and the island to the SW of the maze is a much larger island that must be partially raised out of the sea in order to enter its dungeon.  The NE portion of the sea in PH seems to be an old kingdom with little to no ties to Hyrule, and there doesn't seem to be a Death Valley or Great Palace.  There are lots of pyramid tombs, and a possible connection to the Hidden Palace near Three Eye Rock, but that's only if the Hidden Palace rises out of the desert instead of just being magically invisible.

I haven't taken the time to exhaustively compare the 4 sea charts of PH with the overworld of AoL.  Really that should be its own thread with appropriate spoiler warnings.