Voting

[Fleamo]

Voting is [arguably] important. 

Some people are blocked from voting.

For example the too-young, the felony-convicted, and noncitizens.

How does your status on committing crimes have anything to do with your ability to vote properly?  How is age any more of a legitimate decider on whether or not you should vote than a literacy test? 

Why should voting be restricted to those who were born in the US or went through the hassle and became US citizens?  Long-term legal immigrants who aren't citizens don't have an interest in taxes or the economy? 

[Deku]

How does your status on committing crimes have anything to do with your ability to vote properly?

Some people will argue that it has much to do with the privilege to vote, it's not really a question of "ability" per se.  If you have been convicted of a felony,  it is normally thought to be not only a transgression against your fellow citizens but also against your government.  In other words, those who have committed a crime that merits a felony charge have violated the social-contract that we all are subject to as citizens of a country.  For instance, in early English law (U.S. law was modelled very much after English law), a felony meant that your rights to private property were nullified and thus, you forfeited your lands and goods.  Today in the U.S., those who are felons are not considered productive citizens of the government and thus lose many of their civic rights.  I'm not sure, however, if they are able to acheive them again; you'll have to do the research on that.

Long-term legal immigrants who aren't citizens don't have an interest in taxes or the economy?

Some probably do have an interest in taxes and/or the economy, perhaps even a strong interest.  But they're not legal citizens.  Voting is a privilege of legal citizens, and that should be obvious.  How else do you regulate who gets to vote?  If illegal residents are allowed to vote, what keeps us from restricting anybody from voting?  Just because someone doesn't want to "go through the hassle" of citizenship is no excuse, and to many reveals an indifference towards our country and its laws in the first place.   

[Fleamo]

Some probably do have an interest in taxes and/or the economy, perhaps even a strong interest.  But they're not legal citizens.  Voting is a privilege of legal citizens, and that should be obvious.

Why?  What does being a citizen have to do with anything?  It just means you had the good sense to be born here, the vast majority of the time.  Laws affect everyone living in the area being governed, and everyone who is taxed should have a say in how their money is spent, right?  People who live in an area should be able to vote for that area.

How else do you regulate who gets to vote?

Why do you want to regulate it?  Why not let everyone vote?  The only people who would bother to vote would be the ones who had some vested interest in how the government is run, so the people affected by government would be the ones voting. 

[Haru to Ashura]

If we allowed long-term illegal immigrants to vote, what wouldn't stop people who moved in a week ago from voting - people who have no previous knowledge of the issues or candiadates?

And if we allowed short-term illegal immigrants to vote, then why shouldn't foreigners be allowed to vote?  If an illegal immigrant can vote for the US president, then why can't a British citizen vote on the US presient?  After all, in our country, they have the same citizenship status - that is, no citizenship.

My point is: The system might be slightly unfair to illegal immigrants who have lived and worked in our country for many years, but tehcnically they have no entitlement to that right.  And if we allowed them to vote, what's stopping countries full of other people from voting for something that barely affects them?

As for felons, it's punishment for committing the crime - you've lost a privelage, like a child who doesn't get snacks because he hit his sister, or something to that effect.  I don't think it's a huge deal, because most people will go to jail wouldn't have voted anyway.

[Faceless]

Personally I'm tempted to commit a felony to get out of the hastle of having to vote. (Sarcasm)
Here's a relevant quote: "No matter who you vote for the government always wins."
I don't know what the law is in the US, but in Australia if I didn't vote I would have been fined.
I should probably find out what the law is in the UK... accursed dual nationality.

[Korenshei]

I wish they lowered the voting age by a tad. I mean... 18 is the age when you're finally responsible and a part of the community, but I've advocated for things more than many that age. I've been to war protests. I've chanted for our troops to come home. I've even been interviewed about it.

I'm probably one of the elite few (literally) at this age who knows a little something about politics, and domestic and foreign issues. I'm tired of not having a voice... because just look at who wins presedential elections when I can't vote.  Scratch that... it wouldn't matter anyway... rigging elections is the new fad these days anyway. But... still.

And the government, ranging from the police to the politicians, has a little grudge against youth. They'd fight incredibly hard to make it so my voice will never be heard. Because what does it matter... I'm just a little punk-ass teenager (from a police perspective, every teen is) anyway. How would I have any intelligence?

[llwoops]

To kind of go with what haru said,

If anyone could vote voting would have no purpose and would become chaos.

Other nationalities would flood to our own just to vote and screw things up. If children were able to vote they would lack the knowledge one who votes should have, not that most people do anyway. They would also probably be influenced by parents and just do what they're told. Not to mention publicity would change as well. Let's be the cool pres the kids like!

I know the system isn't perfect right now and could use some improvements but for right now I am fine with how it is.

[Faceless]

Other nationalities would flood to our own just to vote and screw things up.

You assume we care about America that much?

[Fleamo]

If we allowed long-term illegal immigrants to vote, what wouldn't stop people who moved in a week ago from voting - people who have no previous knowledge of the issues or candiadates?

And if we allowed short-term illegal immigrants to vote, then why shouldn't foreigners be allowed to vote?  If an illegal immigrant can vote for the US president, then why can't a British citizen vote on the US presient?  After all, in our country, they have the same citizenship status - that is, no citizenship.

Mmhmm.  Why not let foreigners vote?  Doesn't US policy affect them too?

My point is: The system might be slightly unfair to illegal immigrants

And legal immigrants

who have lived and worked in our country for many years, but tehcnically they have no entitlement to that right.

  Why not?

And if we allowed them to vote, what's stopping countries full of other people from voting for something that barely affects them?

How many of the millions of current voters are directly affected by abortion legality or the death penalty?  We vote about stuff which barely affects us all the time.  But I doubt people would travel to vote for something which doesn't affect them.  Even Americans don't.  So people would only vote if they were affected.  And if they're affected they should have the vote. 

As for felons, it's punishment for committing the crime - you've lost a privelage, like a child who doesn't get snacks because he hit his sister, or something to that effect.  I don't think it's a huge deal, because most people will go to jail wouldn't have voted anyway.

What about the jail time?  Isn't THAT the punishment?  Voting should have nothing to do with whether or not someone is a felon.  It's verging on cruel and unusual.  Definitely unusual.

I don't know what the law is in the US, but in Australia if I didn't vote I would have been fined

In most countries, voting is nonmandatory.  Nothing happens if you don't vote.

If anyone could vote voting would have no purpose and would become chaos.

No doubt what they said about giving women and black men the vote.  There would be a purpose, and it would be the same purpose there is now.  To get a voice in government.  

Other nationalities would flood to our own just to vote and screw things up.

No, only those who felt strongly about something about laws in the United States.  Which would be few people, because it wouldn't affect them.  Unless they worked in the US or something, so it did affect them, so it would be a good thing they could vote.

If children were able to vote they would lack the knowledge one who votes should have, not that most people do anyway. They would also probably be influenced by parents and just do what they're told. Not to mention publicity would change as well. Let's be the cool pres the kids like!

THAT is a legitimate arguement.  Children who cannot make decisions about their clothing for the day shouldn't be allowed to vote.

[Deku]

Mmhmm.  Why not let foreigners vote?  Doesn't US policy affect them too?

Yes, U.S. policy affects people abroad, but the U.S. doesn't have any obligations to them.  Voting is a domestic matter, if you care about foreigners and how they will be affected by our policies then vote for the candidate with the best proposed foreign policy.  (i.e., don't vote for a George Bush  :)

[Haru to Ashura]

If we allowed long-term illegal immigrants to vote, what wouldn't stop people who moved in a week ago from voting - people who have no previous knowledge of the issues or candiadates?

And if we allowed short-term illegal immigrants to vote, then why shouldn't foreigners be allowed to vote?  If an illegal immigrant can vote for the US president, then why can't a British citizen vote on the US presient?  After all, in our country, they have the same citizenship status - that is, no citizenship.

Mmhmm.  Why not let foreigners vote?  Doesn't US policy affect them too?

Interesting idea.  I'll let them vote for my president when I can vote for theirs.

My point is: The system might be slightly unfair to illegal immigrants

And legal immigrants [/quote]

I can agree with that.  It's unfair to legal immigrants.  As for illegal ones, I'm still less compassionate.

[Faceless]

How many of the millions of current voters are directly affected by abortion legality or the death penalty?

I would hazard a guess at more than you think. Abortions aren't even remotely uncommon, and the death penalty affects more than just the person sitting in the chair.

1. It acts as a deterent (how much more effective - if at all - it is is debatable) to crime.

2. The families of both the convicted and the victim are affected by the death penalty. Knowing that the murderer of their little girl can never kill again might be a temendous comfort to some families.
I'm also sure that at least on ocassion, the convicted is innocent, and even in the guilty cases he/she is (in most cases) mourned by his/her family. I'm sure most parents believe the best in their children and often refuse to admit to their child's guilt or try to justify it.

3. One's stance on the death penalty is a reflection upon their belief structure and can give valuable insight into whether you want them making decisions about the future of your country. For example, anyone who advocates being 'pro life^tm' that is also in favour of the death penalty is clearly a hypocrit.

[Korenshei]

If children were able to vote they would lack the knowledge one who votes should have, not that most people do anyway. They would also probably be influenced by parents and just do what they're told. Not to mention publicity would change as well. Let's be the cool pres the kids like!

THAT is a legitimate arguement.  Children who cannot make decisions about their clothing for the day shouldn't be allowed to vote.

I agree... but that would depend on the age. By the time you are sixteen or so you don't neccasarily follow your parents' every move/opinion. And I know most kids my age are dumbasses who would just go by what their parents think. Or... they don't even care or know. I'm saying that I'm not one of those youths... and it dissapoints me that I must wait so long.