The "Rejected Hero of Time" theory

[Skylarkff]

Now this was an idea I was playing around with shortly after reading http://www.zeldauniverse.net/forums/zelda-theorizing/78073-tri-timeline-plus.html.
I started trying to think of what could cause a second split in the timeline and I think I might have found a plausible answer to it. Now I know almost everything in the original theory there and mine go against alot of current Zelda beliefs but it doesn't really contradict any rules.

Now this part is a given:
........WW-PH
OoT-
........MM-TP

Now for the sake of this timeline place MC before OoT. It is kind of needed there to make this work.

CONFUSING PART! Be warned!
The orginal split is quite obvious at the end of OoT. Child and adult ending. I am taking that a bit further.  In the child ending Link seems to return before his first meeting with Zelda and he procedes to warn the kingdom of Ganondorf (acording to generally accepted theory). His time travel is also what splites the triforce in the child line.  Now since he returned before he orginally left. There SHOULD be two Link's walking around. So there should be a Link warning Hyrule and a Link in kokiri forest. Now when Link prevents Ganondorf's plans he is effectivly destroying the purpose of the hero of time. If Ganondorf doesn't cause all the trouble, there is no reason for Link to go questing for the spirtual stones and drawing the Master Sword.
This huge paradox of  being two link's at once and the future Link destroying the reason for his current state of being create a new timeline.
The Link that is still in the Kokiri forest is "rejected" and the timeline is split from there. This Link, while still biologically the same Link as before can't be the hero of time. As the position is already filled by himself in the other timeline. This would mean any events relying on the HoT can't happen. Thus Ganondorf never follows Link into the sacred realm and never gets his Triforce piece. So at the end of the day OoT never happens here, Adult of child side.

So now this beast looks like this
                WW/PH
             /
MC-OoT - MM-TP
     |
     ?

So what goes there? I propose that FSA (and thus FS) fit the place. Ganondorf is in the game and is after the Trident of Power. Assuming he gave up on the Triforce (because he can't get in the SR at this point without the Hero of TIme to pull the MS.) This timeline leads to all of the games featuring the "blue" pig ganon.
               WW/PH
             /
MC-OoT-MM-TP
     |
     FS/FSA-ALttP/LA-OoX-Loz/Aol

The Link in FS/FSA is possibly the "rejected" link from the 2nd split. Seeing how he is still destined to leave the forest because he is a Hylian.  However there is no evidence at all for that and it is pure speculation. 

Now I am not fully convinced this is the way the timeline actually is. I normally support a two way split with the 2d games in the child line.  The developers probbaly haven't even thought a 3-way split. But it was fun and challenging to work with a new idea.  If this theory goes well I might adopt it as my "official" timeline, but I doubt it will. Just try to think outside the box for this one and forget about traditional theories.

I do like the fact that this allows much more flexibility as far as Vatti and Zant are concerned.

[TZM]

that actually makes somce since, in an interesting sort of way.

[Skylarkff]

Yeah. I thought of it after questioning the gennerally accepted theory of the child ending of OoT and reading that other thread.  Link coming back to a point before he left just creates a whole lot of problems.

[Fairy penguin]

That makes sense. Do you mind if I somewhat use this theory in my future timeline?

[dambambuddah]

Here's something to ponder as well;
At the conclusion of OOT, Link returns the Master Sword to the Temple of Time and we see Navi fly away. This is all to have occurred prior to Link meeting Zelda at the Castle Courtyard. So at this point in time, there exists two Links: the "rejected" one, lets presume still napping in his home in Kokiri forest and unaware of what's taking place throughout Hyrule at large, and the Hero of Time who goes on in search of his lost companion [intro for Majora's Mask] after alerting Zelda of Ganondorf's plot, leading him to an alternate universe, Termina. So now we're back down to one Link in Hyrule, but there's still the matter of having two Navis: the Navi who was dispatched by the Great Deku tree to find "sleepy" Link and the afore mentioned one that simply flew away at the Temple of Time and for the most part her continued existence goes unaccounted for.
Now try this theory on for size: Did Zelda sending Link back through time, in essence, create Hyrule's parallel universe Termina?

[Skylarkff]

That makes sense. Do you mind if I somewhat use this theory in my future timeline?

Go ahead. I'm glad you like it. 

I think it is the combonation of the two Links and the HoT link changing the past that causes the split. Some other people I told this to got confused by that so I figured I should clarify here. Because if Link just time traveled there, he could always just leave. But when he warned about Ganondorf he changed the past and pretty much made the HoT not exsist. Thus causes the split.

Here's something to ponder as well;
At the conclusion of OOT, Link returns the Master Sword to the Temple of Time and we see Navi fly away. This is all to have occurred prior to Link meeting Zelda at the Castle Courtyard. So at this point in time, there exists two Links: the "rejected" one, lets presume still napping in his home in Kokiri forest and unaware of what's taking place throughout Hyrule at large, and the Hero of Time who goes on in search of his lost companion [intro for Majora's Mask] after alerting Zelda of Ganondorf's plot, leading him to an alternate universe, Termina. So now we're back down to one Link in Hyrule, but there's still the matter of having two Navis: the Navi who was dispatched by the Great Deku tree to find "sleepy" Link and the afore mentioned one that simply flew away at the Temple of Time and for the most part her continued existence goes unaccounted for.
Now try this theory on for size: Did Zelda sending Link back through time, in essence, create Hyrule's parallel universe Termina?

My theory says that there is a second split to accomidate the two Links. One in each Timeline. So there wouldn't be two Links running around at once.  I believe that Termina was an after effect of Hyrule's creation.  The reason Navi left at the end of OoT is still a mystery to me though.

[TZM]

actually, He would have created a time paradox. Obviously still having the triforce peice of Courage in his hand at the end, Link telling Zelda what happend at the end would not only cause the unexistence of the hero of Time, but also, hismelf. this would cause him to dissipear in most liklyness...

Maybe when Zelda meant that she was sending Link back so he could live a normal childhood... she was meaning the link who hadnt gone through all of this yet? The Link who became the hero couldnt be nromal again, i meen, could you? His telling Zelda what happend would chnage history, erasing himself from the Timeline and saving the other Still 'innocent Link' untouched by the Triforce. Then, one could theorize that This Link then wnet forth to the castle like the other had before, but since Ganondorf might have already been captured, he was told of his past and such, he met with Malon, etc, and would still become frinds with Zelda. This Link could grow older and be a normal Hyrlian, and thats where Link in Tp could come from. As the split in the timeline occurs, I'm sure it most likly came to because of Link's fiddling the Time, so this split reality would continue on it's own path After the Hero had still been around, where in the other timeline, it would never occur. make any sence?

[Skylarkff]

But you see, the HoT Link doesn't disapear. He sticks around for a few months then goes to look for Navi. He then gets mugged by Skull kid and does MM. Thats why its a paradox. He should be "erased" but isnt. So I propose this split is the timeline trying to repair itself but kinda failing.

first split is caused by Link getting sent back and changing the long term future of Ganondorf getting the triforce.

Second caused by Link preventing his own (current) exsistance but not being "erased" from time.

Also I found a couple of things that can be used as evidence.
1. kaepora gaebora is in FSA.
2. The Hero of Time is not mentioned in any of the games I put into the 3rd line.

[TZM]

Maybe MM could be seen as a slight split but nothing more, it could be a side jaunt the HoT Link did  while the other Link lived his own life fine and dandy, then the Adult timeline continued on as a split.

[Ales]

Interesting theory, here is my opinion on that matter and a little more as well.
In all honesty I don't think there ever were two Link's.
When you go back in time during Oot you are returned to the point before you draw the mastersword and there is only one Link. At the end Zelda sends Link back to give him his life back (of course he can never live a normal life after what he's been through) to an earlier point of that timeline using the power of the sages and the ocarina of time.

In short Link is returned to the point where he should've woken up in his bed, Navi leaves him since she has fulfilled her mission and Link warns Zelda of the dangers. It is evident that Link spends some time with Zelda afterwards probably sharing his stories with her and because of his love for her (it is quite obvious that they're in love...at least to me) however Link's mind is 7 years ahead of where it should be and thus he cannot cope with this Zelda for she has not experienced the things adult Zelda had.

He leaves Hyrule in search of Navi and Ganondorf is brought to justice and is taken to the arbiter's grounds to be executed by the sages.
Due to Link's adventure he keeps the triforce of courage (you can see it in the ending sequence of Oot) and since it has been split up Zelda and Ganondorf get's their pieces but they're not aware of it as those powers have not yet awoken.

The triforce of power awakes during Ganondorf's execution and the one of wisdom probably eventually does and is passed down in the royal family, Link the hero of time passes his down somehow to TP Link.

[Skylarkff]

Interesting theory, here is my opinion on that matter and a little more as well.
In all honesty I don't think there ever were two Link's.
When you go back in time during Oot you are returned to the point before you draw the mastersword and there is only one Link. At the end Zelda sends Link back to give him his life back (of course he can never live a normal life after what he's been through) to an earlier point of that timeline using the power of the sages and the ocarina of time.

In short Link is returned to the point where he should've woken up in his bed, Navi leaves him since she has fulfilled her mission and Link warns Zelda of the dangers. It is evident that Link spends some time with Zelda afterwards probably sharing his stories with her and because of his love for her (it is quite obvious that they're in love...at least to me) however Link's mind is 7 years ahead of where it should be and thus he cannot cope with this Zelda for she has not experienced the things adult Zelda had.

He leaves Hyrule in search of Navi and Ganondorf is brought to justice and is taken to the arbiter's grounds to be executed by the sages.
Due to Link's adventure he keeps the triforce of courage (you can see it in the ending sequence of Oot) and since it has been split up Zelda and Ganondorf get's their pieces but they're not aware of it as those powers have not yet awoken.

The triforce of power awakes during Ganondorf's execution and the one of wisdom probably eventually does and is passed down in the royal family, Link the hero of time passes his down somehow to TP Link.

I agree with how the triforce is split and such. Thats the generally accepted theory on how the pieces are split in the child line. But the triforce would still be whole in my "rejected Link" line, however.

You say there are not two Links. The only way that could be would be if Link returned right after he got sealed in the SR when he pulled the sword.  We see this isn't the case because he obviously got there in enough time to stop Ganondorf.  By preventing Ganondorf's plans he effectivly destroys his current self.  Because then he would never need to become the hero of time to stop him in the future. But we see he doesn't just vanish as he should.

That's why I think there is a second split. The timeline is trying to cope with the paradox of the two Links and him preventing his own exsistance. The only way it can "repair" itself is to split and have a Link in each one.

The fact that KG (the owl) has the same role in FSA as in OoT can help support this. The only games he appears in is OoT, FSA, and LA. But in LA he isn't named and it is a dream world anyways.

About Link and Zelda being in love. I doubt it, at least at this point. Link had only met her twice . Once as a kid (not counting when he saw her flee) and once as an adult. Both times were very short visits.  Maybe by time he leaves for Termina, but they are like 10-11 I highly doubt it is anything more than a crush.  Just because Link aged physically doesn't mean he matured mentally.  I know that because in MM during the Anju and Kafei sidequest the textbox for when Kafei asks you to deliver the pendent says something like "You don't understand these adult matters but you should deliver it anyways." Meh I'm getting too off topic.

[Ales]

Well you see, Zelda and the sages create a "new" timeline in that sense that the child timeline is completely rebooted and Link is placed in it. It's like making food...you taken one timeline and then add a little Link.

And about KG in FSA: yes that is true...but did you also know that Malon and Talon appear in the minish cap and oracle of seasons? And let's not start with Tingle! KG is either able to live for a long time due to the fact thwat he's the incarnation of an ancient sage or...it's just nintendo's infamous character recycle.

Adult Zelda seems to be very attracted to him in the ending of Oot but maybe Link isn't cause I thought of a new theory:

first off...kudos to you for remembering that line in MM, I had no recollection of it until you told me. But in Oot KG tells child Link when he's in the spirit temple that he has fully matured as an adult. However there are many ways one could be considered t obe a mature adult.

I've noticed in MM that it has a lot to do with love and compassion and Link never once during that game seem to fully understand it (we have the gibdo father is now healed scene). If you grew up the way the hero of time did you'd be more like a soldier right? You know of war and justice and that evil must be fought but you know nothing about true love and so on.

In MM Link learns about these things and that could be why he gives up on searching for Navi at the end and returns home. IF you were sent back and didn't know of these things and everyone you could relate to was gone...you'd panic and Link knew that Navi was done and yet he started such a desperate quest.

I'm in a hurry so I might've forgotten some things but it sort of makes sense...

[Skylarkff]

Well you see, Zelda and the sages create a "new" timeline in that sense that the child timeline is completely rebooted and Link is placed in it. It's like making food...you taken one timeline and then add a little Link.

There is nothing that says they just "make" a new timeline. It's more that him warning about Ganondorf prevents the future from happening but the destroyed future still exsists.  I don't know if you watched DBZ so many years ago, but think back to the Trunk's saga when he came to cure Goku's heart desiese but when he returned to his time everything was the same.  Changing the past is like forcing a river to split into two.

And about KG in FSA: yes that is true...but did you also know that Malon and Talon appear in the minish cap and oracle of seasons? And let's not start with Tingle! KG is either able to live for a long time due to the fact thwat he's the incarnation of an ancient sage or...it's just nintendo's infamous character recycle.

Malon and Talon in MC (they are in OoS?) are largly unimportant characters, much like Din, Farore, Nayru in MC.  However FG is in almost every part of FSA giving advice to the Link(s). He is much more than recycled filler character here.

first off...kudos to you for remembering that line in MM, I had no recollection of it until you told me. But in Oot KG tells child Link when he's in the spirit temple that he has fully matured as an adult. However there are many ways one could be considered t obe a mature adult.

I just did that sidequest before posting. The quote was fresh in my mind. Link might be matured as far as war and fighting goes, but as for relationships and love he is still a child. Unless Navi told him the birds and the bees while they were saving Hyrule. 

[TZM]

actually, as far as the maturity goes, i figured Nintendo had merely taken that link wa sa child in this one and saying 'well, good thing you know alot about relationships, as you were an adult once' would throw some people off, they kept it somthign that people who never played Oot would grasp easily.

[hello_echoes]

I agree. There's no possible way you go could go through everything that Link went through in OoT and not mature mentally. In MM I think Link really was "older." The first thing that impressed me was the way his jumping style changed. Instead of just straight forward stuff he would do flips and junk. Probably because he was more experienced in combat. I think even Tatl comments on this.  Doesn't she ask Link if he's done some of this stuff before after you save the Deku Princess?

Besides, you have to look at it this way. At the start of OoT Link really was innocent and was at the level of maturity fit of a child of his age, in both body and spirit. When he was locked away in the sacred realm for seven years, he aged phyiscally but I'm assuming not mentaly seeing as he was alseep hadn't experienced growing up. Seven years were missing from his life. So I think that while he had the body of an adult, his spirit was still that of a child.  But as time progressed I think he gained that maturity and when he was sent back, that balance of body and spirit reversed. Now he has the mind of an adult but the body of a child. So that could account for the qoute in MM. Maybe he just doesn't understand his own feelings. Because of what he went through, he's bound to have some psychological issues. Plus......he's a guy anyway. 

[Skylarkff]

I'm sure he matured. Sure he became a combat expert and such.  But Because of being sealed he never experienced romance or anything like that. I believe he is still naive about such things. Plus Kafei is a guy too and he aparantly understood enough to want Link to send the pendent. Maybe we should make a new "romance" thread? Since it is really straying off from my orginal theory.

[TZM]

I agree, make the thread