The Big Damn E3 2009 Thread

[Shin Illuminated]

Don't hold your breath. Either of you.

[hisak]

Like I said, I'm not expecting a "huge" showing. But I think the fact that Metroid Prime Trilogy was announced before the press conference is a good sign, since Nintendo obviously has bigger announcements for E3. Whether those are casual or hardcore remains to be seen--Nintendo doesn't really distinguish between them in terms of "size" of announcement, and we'll probably see some of both.

[dmax3901]

I'm going to be real annoyed if Nintendo do a repeat of last year. What a disappointment that was...

[hisak]

I can't really see how that would be possible. They already have more games announced than they did last year. I guess they could just say "Our Mario, Zelda, Pikmin, and Sin & Punishment teams are still at work, don't worry," but...they won't. Both Reggie and Cammie have said they hope to have a better showing this year.

Also, they won't be able to show off an already-shown title as the "big reveal" this year. The only original upcoming first-party games that we've seen footage of are Wii Sports Resort and Sin & Punishment 2. WSR will probably be mentioned early in the conference (like it was last year), and S&P2 isn't a big enough title to show at the end. I guess they could show another casual Wii Series game, but considering they've done that twice now, I doubt they will.

[Kyle]

This sounds reminiscent of last year's E3 threads. We were all talking about how Nintendo would rebound after their decidedly poor E3 2007 showing. After all, that one was excusable because it was done inside an abandoned bunker or whatever, and for 2008 they were back in the Convention Center. In the face of stiff competition and potential show-stealing revelations from Sony and Microsoft (rumoured motion controllers and the like), how could Nintendo not be on top of their game? We all know how that turned out.

The story is much the same this year. E3 is coming back from the dead, the Wii is selling like crap in Japan, Sony is probably dropping the PS3 price, and Nintendo has hardly announced anything. How could they pull off another crappy showing? Regardless of the gaming community's anticipation, I don't think Nintendo is going to show much this year because they don't have much to show.

If there's one thing we've learned over the past few years, it's that Nintendo doesn't keep secrets for very long. Even back in the days of the Nintendo Revolution, they spilled the beans on the system's only defining features a few months past E3 2005. Twilight Princess was unveiled when it was maybe 1% complete. SSBB was unveiled a year and a half before its release. Even casual software like Wii Fit, Wii Music, and recently Wii Sports Resort has been hyped up at least 6 months before their release. If there's an exciting first-party title from Nintendo coming, it would have either been revealed long ago, or it's not coming out for another couple years.

Another thing we should have learned is that Nintendo doesn't make big titles anymore. Zelda and Mario were front-loaded in the Wii's release specifically as insurance if their casual games angle failed, but now that it has proven successful there's no turning back. To produce games on the level of the Zelda and Mario titles that started off the Wii require significant resources, and would require even more to make actual advances in their respective series and get people's attention.

However, I don't believe that Nintendo is going to fall back on Wii Fit/Wii Sports remakes this year, since they're destined for failure anyway. The theme for this year will be Gamecube remakes. We've already seen a couple games come out, and the idea had been hyped up by Miyamoto years before. These are probably very easy and cheap to produce, and most of the audience for the Wii either doesn't remember or never heard of the original Gamecube versions anyway. The big "Wii Music" reveal of Nintendo's E3 could easily be a Wind Waker remake. Whether the community would like that is a different story, but I believe the conference video would have to be edited to remove the groans from the audience.

[hisak]

Another thing we should have learned is that Nintendo doesn't make big titles anymore.

Here's the problem: they've confirmed (but not officially announced) that both Zelda and Pikmin titles are being made for Wii. Both are almost guaranteed successes, both critically and sales-wise. So why would Nintendo hold back on them?

And while Nintendo did use their Fall Summit last year to announce the New Play Control line-up (I believe, they did in Japan at least), the real focus of the summit was Sin & Punishment 2 and Punch-Out!! I don't see why this year would be any different.

Of course there's still a chance that Nintendo does a repeat showing of last year's press conference, but I think it's incredibly unlikely.

[Kyle]

Here's the problem: they've confirmed (but not officially announced) that both Zelda and Pikmin titles are being made for Wii. Both are almost guaranteed successes, both critically and sales-wise. So why would Nintendo hold back on them?

That question sort of negates the point you were trying to make. Assuming Nintendo has been developing these games (which I don't really believe to begin with), why would they be holding back on them? It makes sense if they just recently began developing them, but that also implies that these titles are no longer a priority, since Nintendo waiting any length of time between developing two Zelda titles is pretty much unheard of.

Either way, I don't think an unveiling of Zelda or Mario would be enough to get people excited about E3 anyway. Unfortunately, for various reasons, the mere revelation of a Zelda title is no longer an assurance of a mind-blowing game-of-the-century title, as we saw with Spirit Tracks. If there's one thing that could make Nintendo's E3 successful, it would be showing off unique and original 'real' games, akin to Disaster and Project HAMMER. I don't need to tell you why we won't see that, though!

[hisak]

It makes sense if they just recently began developing them, but that also implies that these titles are no longer a priority, since Nintendo waiting any length of time between developing two Zelda titles is pretty much unheard of.

They've always held back on announcing these titles until E3, right? And Nintendo is a big company--they're not using all their resources just to make two casual games a year. It wouldn't make any sense for them to have the Pikmin and Zelda teams to stop making their games just because a new casual title is coming.

[Kyle]

They've always held back on announcing these titles until E3, right? And Nintendo is a big company--they're not using all their resources just to make two casual games a year. It wouldn't make any sense for them to have the Pikmin and Zelda teams to stop making their games just because a new casual title is coming.

There actually was some evidence that the Zelda team had spent their time developing Wii Fit. I don't remember the exact article that I read (from some time last year), but this was the closest one I could find. In another interview, Miyamoto specifically stated that the Zelda team had been working on Wii Fit. My belief is that the confirmation of a Zelda being developed by this team is a half truth which may just be an updated Wind Waker for the New Play Control series.

Whenever you find Nintendo talking about 'real' games, the feeling seems to be that they are being developed (depending on your definition of development), but they're low priority. As we've seen above, this can mean that little or no time is actually devoted to these games. The most we've heard about Zelda is very vague descriptions about finding new ideas and experimentation, something that they would have been well past even last year if they had been working since TP.

In short, there isn't going to be a secret blowout Zelda Wii title shown off at E3. If we do see anything, it is likely very early in development and unlikely to come out until late 2010 at best.

[hisak]

Whenever you find Nintendo talking about 'real' games, the feeling seems to be that they are being developed (depending on your definition of development), but they're low priority.

So, what? Spirit Tracks gets completed in two years while being a "low priority" project? Somehow that doesn't seem possible. And, unless you assume that the Zelda teams are treated differently in terms of how fast they're allowed to make games, which doesn't make any sense unless you're trying to be insanely pessimistic.

Also:

IGN: One of those GCN rereleases for Wii is Pikmin. We just want to clarify that this is not Pikmin 3 that Miyamoto referenced at E3 2008.

Cammie Dunaway: It's not the Pikmin that Mr. Miyamoto referred to, no. Mr. Miyamoto referred to a new Pikmin, as opposed to the classics that are being rereleased on Wii.

So why would a new Zelda game be any different? Nintendo isn't stupid; they know not to lie about their big franchises.

http://www.officialnintendomagazine.co.uk/article.php?id=6715

Okay, what about a message for everyone waiting for those new Mario and Zelda games?

"I'm really not sure when we'll be able to make a public announcement on that. I can't even say if the next E3 will be the right opportunity to do so. But rest assured, our teams are working on new projects right now."

Now, I realize that Zelda might not be revealed at E3, and I'm not expecting it to. But if it was just a TWW remake, why would it even be questionable?

EDIT: You know what? Screw first-party stuff. If they announce it, awesome. But I'm really, really looking forward to hearing more about Gladiator A.D.

[hisak]

(double post wouldn't happen with more posts, so it doesn't really count, does it?)

It's probably too early to call this E3 a success, but it's definitely better than last year's already.

Gladiator A.D. announcement
The Grinder announcement

Both of these games have me quite excited.

[JC]

I just hope High Voltage won't burn out on FPS titles for the Wii. The Grinder is FPS and so it The Conduit. I don't know...they seem like they're on some sort of high horse because they're delivering mature titles more or less exclusively for Wii. They have every right to be only IF they develop mature titles that are of a consistently good quality.

But having such grand-scale game in development basically all at the same time may have made The Conduit get that 8.0 in Nintendo Power..

[hisak]

I don't really know how Nintendo Power scores games, so I can't really judge what their idea of an 8.0 is.

High Voltage does sound really ambitious in both articles, and they seem to have a kind of openness about the development process that most Wii developers lack. Both games are set for next year (Gladiator for Q1 and Grinder for Q4), so I don't think they'll be rushing them. High Voltage might not be the Best.Developer.Ever., but they do have a respect for the system that is hard to find among many developers. Let's hope their games sell.

Also: Wii Fit Plus is looking pretty real. But that still doesn't rule out any big announcements. (I doubt the Zelda team was working on it.)

[Kyle]

Now, I realize that Zelda might not be revealed at E3, and I'm not expecting it to. But if it was just a TWW remake, why would it even be questionable?

I don't necessarily think they're only developing a Wind Waker remake, but it's probably a lot further along than anything else. What I meant about Zelda Wii is that it's probably only been in development for a short period of time or with a very small team. One would normally expect it to have started right after Twilight Princess. For this year's E3, I would definitely expect a New Play Control WW rather than a new Zelda title, since it's probably not even in a presentable form right now.

As for those High Voltage titles, I don't care much for excessively violent games. It seems that developers need to include lots of gore for their game to be considered cool and mature these days. The only shooters I play are CS or TF2 anyway, as I prefer PC controls above anything else. I'm sure the Wii controller is a close second, but I'm not exactly itching for more FPS titles.

[hisak]

For this year's E3, I would definitely expect a New Play Control WW rather than a new Zelda title, since it's probably not even in a presentable form right now.

You're probably right about a new Zelda, but I doubt they're working on a TWW port. It wouldn't have as many obvious benefits as Metroid Prime or Pikmin do, and Wii MotionPlus control would probably require them to redo a lot of the game.

As for those High Voltage titles, I don't care much for excessively violent games. It seems that developers need to include lots of gore for their game to be considered cool and mature these days.

I guess, but I don't think either of these games would have the right feel without it. Gladiator is supposed to have realistic levels of violence and blood. The Grinder, if I'm interpreting it's name correctly, seems to pay homage to grindhouse-style horror movies. So it makes sense for it to have buckets of gore. Besides, we'll finally be getting a Wii-exclusive coop shooter and a notable fighter that doesn't have "Smash Bros." in its title.

[Shin Illuminated]

I'm just gonna come out and say it.

The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past The Remake.

Or, The Legend of Zelda: Shadows of Hyrule (the remake would need a new title).

[Witless]

I'm just gonna come out and say it.

The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past The Remake.

Or, The Legend of Zelda: Shadows of Hyrule (the remake would need a new title).

If that's true. I'll give you a handjob.

If it's not, you give me one. Deal?

[Shin Illuminated]

If by hand job you mean quiet admiration from afar (way way waaaayyyy afar), then yes, I'll take you up on that.

[chibimoon]

If that's true. I'll give you a handjob.

If it's not, you give me one. Deal?

I'll take you up on this offer. And more.

Also I'm interested in seeing anything from Team ICO on their project. I'm being drastically optimistic and hoping for game release by Christmas, but given that Uncharted 2 is pretty much confirmed for a November release, I can't see it happening.

[Witless]

If by hand job you mean quiet admiration from afar (way way waaaayyyy afar), then yes, I'll take you up on that.

I don't think we're on the same level here Shin.

I'll take you up on this offer. And more.

Deal.



Also, No More Heroes 2? Fuck yes.
A small fuck yes, but a fuck yes nonetheless.