Zelda Wii Might Come Sooner Than We Thought

[The Tao Of Bill]

it's usually whoever the underdog is who improves the gaming industry...in the 80s it was nintendo...in the 90s it was sega who raised the bar with the 16 bit system...nintendo even stated that there was no need to improve their system to 16 bit because they felt they owned the industry and didn't need to waste money anymore. Then sony came out of no where and reduced production costs thus proving that CD games were more effective then cartridge games...then microsoft came in and revolutionized online play and now nintendo being the underdog had to use inovation to stay in the game. Basically witless is wrong. We wouldn't be still playing N64 if it were up to nintendo...we'd still be playing NES. It's competition that drives the market forward. Not nintendo. Not microsoft and not sony. They all give each other reasons to improve the industry. And the game industry would probably be pretty different if any one of them decided not go into the game industry.

[Auroraominae]

If you do not like voice-overs

...Ehh, i love voice overs, but they just don't fit in zelda. I like being able to immagine how people talk in zelda, not some half-assed voice actor butcher the chars...

[The Tao Of Bill]

...Ehh, i love voice overs, but they just don't fit in zelda. I like being able to immagine how people talk in zelda, not some half-assed voice actor butcher the chars...

Imagination is for nerds

[Eater]

No, imagination is for people who use their brains.

[The Tao Of Bill]

yeah... nerds

[Eater]

Anyone who plays video games and goes on online forums are nerds as well. =P

[JordAnime]

We wouldn't be still playing N64 if it were up to nintendo...we'd still be playing NES. It's competition that drives the market forward. Not nintendo. Not microsoft and not sony. They all give each other reasons to improve the industry.

Competition in the game market is a given, but even if there only were one console maker in the industry, the consumers will eventually want newer and better products.  Granted, things would be a lot worse without competition, but we wouldn't still be playing NES, people would just tire of the media and the industry would die.  It was Reggie at E3 2006 who said that the graveyard of any industry is filled headstones of companies that relied only what had been done, and only played only the margin.  For instance, Sony was champion of the portable CD player market, Apple came out with a device that made the CD player obsolete, the iPod and Sony had to change their tactics, but obviously even Sony, over time, needed to make upgrades to the Discman; make it smarter, slimer, more battery efficient, otherwise people wouldn't buy new ones.

[Auroraominae]

If were to make the changes, these would be it:

1) I'd put more semi-voice overs in. Links shouting, things like that. No full text voice overs, but small things like that.

2) Put orchestrated music where ever it doesn't have to change due to an enemy spawning.

3) Much, much, MUUUUCH more sidequests and original sidequest rewards. I can't even begin to emphasize how much more i'd put in. Around 3 times of majora's sidequests, with at least 10 original items you get from them (Not pieces of heart or rupees).

Some of these items would be magical and required to get pieces of heart. Think of say, a "Din's gem", which makes your sword burst into flame and create shockwaves of fire, but takes mana with each slash. Also thing of aditional magical arrows gained this way (Tornado arrows, darkness arrows, lightning arrows). At least 25 hours in sidequest content - i can do with 1-2 less dungeons if this is implemented.

4) Return the magic bar and magic arrows. NO EXCUSES.

5) Give us more sword / shield techniques, but without long combos you need to press. We do NOT want A A B B R A B combos. No combo's that need speed to execute - they need to feel a part of you, not a nuisance you need to practise for.

6) Harder boss fights.

7) To go along with the more sidequests, more towns and more shops.

8) An instrument. Old, but i love it. A full time instrument.

9) 4-5 spells, full time magic. Think dins fire, a tornado you can blast from your hand, a energy ball you crash into an enemy, or a blizard that emerges from the palm of your hand. Most of these should be optional from sidequests. Think of puzzles where you need to freeze a part over a pool of water with the blizard.

10) Somewhere near end game, access to the triforce (Or "Learning" how to use your triforce of courage) to be able to unleash it's power. Thing extremly powerfull and epic sword moves that drain enormous amounts of mana (Say, jumping into the sky, than slashing down from heavens with a glowing master sword than unleashing a devastating ordnance of steel on an enemy). Or, being able to open portals to the sacred realm, sucking enemies within, or being able to unleash a golden bombardment of light-arrow like projectiles. Something epic.

11) keep transformations. Like in MM, but also allow link to transform into a dark demon-like form. Don't call it a demon (Demons just don't really fit in zelda), call it his phantom or shadow form... Be creative.

12) There has to be a lon lon ranch. period.

[Eater]

Ordon already was kind of like a Lon Lon Ranch.

[The Tao Of Bill]

Competition in the game market is a given, but even if there only were one console maker in the industry, the consumers will eventually want newer and better products.  Granted, things would be a lot worse without competition, but we wouldn't still be playing NES, people would just tire of the media and the industry would die.  It was Reggie at E3 2006 who said that the graveyard of any industry is filled headstones of companies that relied only what had been done, and only played only the margin.  For instance, Sony was champion of the portable CD player market, Apple came out with a device that made the CD player obsolete, the iPod and Sony had to change their tactics, but obviously even Sony, over time, needed to make upgrades to the Discman; make it smarter, slimer, more battery efficient, otherwise people wouldn't buy new ones.

Only reason a company would fail if it fails to improve it's product is because of competition. Why do you think nintendo went nearly 10 years before improving the NES. It was not worth the cost to do so. They owned the market and people never did get tired of the NES even after 10 years because new games were still coming out for it. Only after they felt threatened by sega did they release the SNES. Money makes the world go round. If the technology is not cost effective it isn't going to be made. We can build super consoles capable of the most advanced physics and graphics and controls possible but people wouldn't be able to afford it so the company isn't going to make any money by making such a system. Technology only moves forward when it becomes economically feasable to do so.

Which is why nintendo doesn't change much with zelda. It sticks to the same formula because it knows what works and it knows there isn't much that can compete with it. Even though zelda can be far better then what TP was. But I think we are starting to see an outcry for change in the zelda community. But I don't think it will be enough because people will still buy plenty of future zelda games. And until nintendo sees a sharp drop in sales I don't think they will make too many changes to the game. I think people are starting to get tired of the same formula. And a lot of zelda fans were hopeing for more improvements in TP then what was given to us.

[JordAnime]

Only reason a company would fail if it fails to improve it's product is because of competition.

In the case of video games, I have to disagree, people would eventually grow tired of the NES.  I don't disagree that it would take much longer for change to come, but it would come.

Why do you think nintendo went nearly 10 years before improving the NES. It was not worth the cost to do so. They owned the market and people never did get tired of the NES even after 10 years because new games were still coming out for it. Only after they felt threatened by sega did they release the SNES.

1985-1991 isn't almost ten years, and in Japan, it received a major upgrade in the form of a disc drive.

Technology only moves forward when it becomes economically feasable to do so.

Agreed, but that doesn't help your point, people will still eventually lose interest with the same old thing, even if nothing better comes out in that given field; but it would take longer for the industry to collapse, and it can collapse.  

And a lot of zelda fans were hopeing for more improvements in TP then what was given to us.

I think the general gaming populous and the majority of gamers will be extremely pleased with what they see.  The number of "bad" reviews the game has gotten can be counted on one hand, and even those reviews don't pin the game as terrible.

As for radical changes, Ocarina of Time, given its seven year difference between A Link to the Past, was about as drastic a change as you could get from a game, same thing with Mario 64.  I think Nintendo knows the importance of mixing things up, after all, they're banking on the Wii.  Change will come to Zelda, it came with Twilight Princess, it may have not met everybody's "expectations", but I'd seriously like to see you all do better.

[The Tao Of Bill]

In the case of video games, I have to disagree, people would eventually grow tired of the NES. I don't disagree that it would take much longer for change to come, but it would come.

Only reason people get tired of game systems is because they've come to expect game systems to be improved over time. But if there were no competition for nintendo then that expectation would be gone. Until competition enters the market and comes up with their own improvement on the industry the companys with the upperhand will continue to make the same successful products until pushed by competition to do otherwise. In a world without competition it is much more feasable to come out with new games rather then new systems. Which is why nintendo didn't come out with new systems nor did it even have plans to come out with new systems until it had competition.

1985-1991 isn't almost ten years, and in Japan, it received a major upgrade in the form of a disc drive.

sorry for some reason i thought the nes was released much earlier then 85. my mistake. but my point is the same...

Agreed, but that doesn't help your point, people will still eventually lose interest with the same old thing, even if nothing better comes out in that given field; but it would take longer for the industry to collapse, and it can collapse.

That's just not true. How can someone get tired of something that is still the top of the line. With proper marketing any company with no competition can stay alive. All it would have to do would be to keep a steady supply to meet the demand and kept a flow of new games nintendo would never have to make a new system. Especially in the line of childrens toys which is what the NES was considered in it's prime. Just look at the hoola hoop.


However I will say that the world I am talking about is a complete fantasy world. And there will always be inovators who have better ideas then the current bigshots. Therefore there will always be competition in the game industry so technology would always have to improve to stay on top.

[JordAnime]

Only reason people get tired of game systems is because they've come to expect game systems to be improved over time. But if there were no competition for nintendo then that expectation would be gone. Until competition enters the market and comes up with their own improvement on the industry the companys with the upperhand will continue to make the same successful products until pushed by competition to do otherwise. In a world without competition it is much more feasable to come out with new games rather then new systems. Which is why nintendo didn't come out with new systems nor did it even have plans to come out with new systems until it had competition.

That's just not true. How can someone get tired of something that is still the top of the line.

I still contend that people would get sick of the same old thing, it's not just from a business point of view, it's from an artistic point of view.  Art doesn't change because of competition, it changes because people want to try new things and get sick of old things.  People would eventually stop buying the NES, regardless of no competition.  Even the Gameboy, which had no legitimate competition, had to be updated because sales were starting to decline.  It had all be done and people wanted to see new things, people need to be stimulated from time to time.

[Shin Illuminated]

Well...I got lost on what these other two guys are talking about...but I have the simpla solution for voice overs in Zelda...

It's called a microphone. Everyone has their own voicework, and you answer for Link. Be it a simple yes or no, or just screaming at Ganon telling him how much you're going to kill him.

Don't like the idea? Who cares? It probably won't happen anyway...but its a thought.

[The Tao Of Bill]

Well...I got lost on what these other two guys are talking about...but I have the simpla solution for voice overs in Zelda...

It's called a microphone. Everyone has their own voicework, and you answer for Link. Be it a simple yes or no, or just screaming at Ganon telling him how much you're going to kill him.

Don't like the idea? Who cares? It probably won't happen anyway...but its a thought.

Adding your own voice overs is for nerds.

[Shin Illuminated]

Adding your own voice overs is for nerds.

So then don't play it, cool guy.

[F3]

Not going to bother reading the whole thread or really getting mired in this discussion - I just want to address these two issues from the first page:

Also, midi files should stay for any areas with normal enemies (So the music can change when danger comes). Orchestrated for villages, bosses, etc.

There's no reason to continue using MIDI. Compressed audio files can be used to the same effect.

Now, Link must always remain silent. It's in his character, and changing that would completely change the feel of Zelda. Link is you and you are Link. What if Link said something that you didn't want him to say? I wouldn't be happy, I'll guarantee that. The way it is now, you are able to sculpt Link's character somewhat, and put a little bit of yourself into him. Link must remain silent to preserve this, which is a very valuable trait of the series.

I disagree. You're already playing as Link, Link does not play you. He never did. Link is simply Link. The whole '' It brings the player and character closer together '' is a load of bull in my opinion. Link lacks enormous personality which kind of destroys the whole story. I want to hear his opinion on the matter for once, hear what he has to say other than being ordered around and agree like a dog with nods.

Halo's Master Chief is the quintessential "player is the character," and even he has voice acting for the few but necessary lines in cutscenes. It did nothing to the effect. He's still a blank palette, no personality, relationships, dispositions or quirks, and he doesn't talk as you're playing.

"Silent Link" often strikes me as an artifact created by purists who linger in days gone by. Voice acting offers every opportunity to improve storytelling in video games. If Zelda is to include this, a mute Link would become awkward fast. There are obvious questions and responses that need to take place in the various exchanges found in cutscenes. Text was far more forgiving in this regard.

[Auroraominae]

Actually, i love the old zelda formula. Please keep using it forever; some slight changes are welcome (More sidequests and spells, people!!), but the old mechanics, fighting, dungeons, bosses etc still work like a charm to me. The only a few things i have to ***** about are:



MIDI files in towns and such. They are acceptable in dungeons because they allow dynamic music changes, but in towns, houses, boss fights, etc there is NO excuse.


Camera. Give us a fully controllable camera people...


Magic bar being removed is a huge slap, if not a slam in the face. Putting the lamp oil bar on that spot to create the impression there is one in screenshots before it was released only adds insult to injury.


Not enough sidequests. I can't begin to emphasize this enough. NOT. ENOUGH. SIDEQUESTS.



This is where not a change, but an expansion is needed: Please give us NEW items!! I want to keep the elemental arrows, master sword, hookshot, hammer, spinner from TW, and all other classics, but for christs sake give us 5-10 new goodies. Suggestions:

4-5 SPELLS:

1) The wind blast from your hand i suggested earlier, blizzards, a field of flame around you, etc. Nothing too complicated (The last thing we need are "stats" a la D&D), but just cool magic that uses the bar.


Other suggestions:

2) Stone arrows, which turn an enemy into stone. Of course also usable for puzzles.

3) Roc's cape in 3d zeldas. Allows you to fully fly while using a small ammount of mana (like lens of truth). Allow players to fly as high as they want, an "Invisible wall" is definetly not what belongs in zelda. Give this around the final dungeon, because it would be too easy to navigate dungeons with this if gained early.

4) Enchantments to the boomerang. Why not a magic boomerang that can be enchanted with winds (A la TP), fire, ice, light, darkness, pure magic (Lets you control it like a seagull in TWW), or lightning?

5) A "warp" item that can be used for short range teleports, like wizzrobes in MM. Can also be used in combination with the sword, warp behind someone, slash him in the back. Or upwards, warp upwards, slash at a switch, than fall back down.

6) A magical branch, which can grow or shrink at will. For example, at normal small size, it could be used as a rod that fires small balls of flame. Than, you could have it extend to a 5-6 foot stick, which you could use to fight, jump over ravines, etc. Than, you could have it extend more, to the size of a tree, where you could put it against a wall to climb on, or across a ravine to walk on. Finally, you could make a small wooden tower out of it, which you could climb, use as an outpost and find a piece of heart in (All these upgrades would be gained at a great fairy and not necesarry to progress the game, except for the staff size).

[FDLink]

I read in last month's EGM's rumor section that the next Zelda for Wii will not star Link, but would instead star Tingle.

. . .

I hope this isn't the same game that Game Informer is talking about. If that were the case, talk about getting blue-balled.

[Auroraominae]

Tingle zelda? I know a much better way to pass time... How about eating broken glass, followed by ritual suicide?