Standard issue Zelda: what to stay and what to go...

[Carl Jr.]

 The overworld needs change, because, let's face it, it's always changing.

I think a lot of inspiration in general could come from Link's Awakening. a 16x16 screen world where more and more gets opened up as you collect the right items. Someone on another board mentioned having reached Animal Village and saying they felt like they'd been travelling for days, even though it was only a handful of screens over from Mabe.

   So, create a few tiers of land blocked off by different obstacles. First you'll have very limited range of exploration. Then you clear a dungeon, and you have twice as much overworld to explore. Then you can access roughly a fourth of the map. Then, you finally get to reach that "other side" of the world, where everything is just a little bit different, including the enemies you'll run into (this is usually a good spot for beaches and tropical settings). Finally, perhaps you gain access to those closed off parts of the mountains.

    It's an adjustable idea, basically playing off the idea that, even though this is a sandbox overworld, you can still somewhat place the physical journey into chapters. For example, in the case of Link's Awakening, a chapter focusing around Catfish's Maw might see Link completing some of the trading sequence around Martha's Bay, and visiting the Animal Village again. He couldn't do this at Chapter one because it was physically impossible for him to overcome some obstacle on the way. At the same time, a chapter focused around Catfish's Maw wouldn't have him hanging around Mabe Village much (HE GOT THE BOW ALREADY SHUT UP >:o  ) 

    It's a nice way of tying dungeons to their locations, and always instills a sense of curiosity in the player, as if they were looking up at a moon they could never reach, because they didn't have a rocket. In the same way, people might mention a town to the far east beyond the mountains where everyone drinks tea and dragons are good (Yes, once upon a time, China actually filled this adventure role pretty well), but the path through the mountain is blocked by some sort of obstacle that only the HAMMER can destroy. Once you find the hammer, it's a whole new world.

     What's also rather funny is that, IMO, The land of Kanto in Pokemon Red/Blue/Yellow pulled this kind of overworld off as well. Maybe it's a gameboy thing...

[hisak]

So after listening to several tracks from Super Mario Galaxy 2, I've decided that Mahito Yokota needs to compose music for this game. It would be fantastic.

EDIT: In fact, in turns out he composed the music for some of the Twilight Princess trailers. So yeah, he needs to do it.

[Be_yourself]

EDIT: In fact, in turns out he composed the music for some of the Twilight Princess trailers. So yeah, he needs to do it.

I agree totally, i thought that the TP trailers had fantastic music that brought out the epicness behind Zelda.
In fact i would like the music of Zelda to turn in the direction of the music of mario galaxy, i thought the tone of Mario galaxy's music was fantastically epic but it sorta out-epicked itself by the fact it was about a plumber that was in outer space trying to defeat a giant tortise to save his girlfreind.  The style of Mario Galaxy could be adapted to suit Zelda very well...

for instance, fluffy buffy galaxy would make a very good village/hyrule field theme,  Bowsers castle music would be an excellent epic final showdown theme etc.  i think Galaxy's music gives a very wonderous and explorative, whilst epic vibe...

[hisak]

In fact i would like the music of Zelda to turn in the direction of the music of mario galaxy

Yes. Which is why I said Mahito Yokota. The composer for the Mario Galaxy games.

[JordAnime]

The Galaxy soundtrack is great, I don't think Zelda should be done in the same style, though.  Galaxy has a deal more pomp to it than I think would befit a Zelda game.  Zelda needs a more mystical/mysterious touch to the music with the occasional epic tune for the field music, bosses, and certain events. I miss the days when Kondo wrote the entire score for Zelda and Mario solo.  Not saying there aren't other great composers at Nintendo, it's just Kondo is the the man.

However, I have to say that the Bowser battle theme in Super Mario Galaxy 2 really sounds like it could be a Zelda boss...and the Starship Mario theme would be great for a town in Zelda.

[hisak]

The Galaxy soundtrack is great, I don't think Zelda should be done in the same style, though.

Neither do I, but Yokota has already shown he can do Zelda music, and I think he's up to the task.

[JordAnime]

It recently came out that Kondo was responsible for five or six of Galaxy's themes.  

(click to show/hide)

Yoshi Star, The Faceship, and Bowser Jr.'s Fiery Flotila

were his.  It wouldn't shock me if Tōru Minegishi were put in charge of the majority of the next Zelda's soundtrack again...the Spirit Tracks soundtrack was one of the better aspects of that game and he handled that.  Still, it'd be nice if Kondo actually personally handled the music himself.  I mean, understand that Kondo basically is in the position Miyamoto is now, training a next generation, but with music, it's really the soul of the person creating it, and I think Kondo is still the best Nintendo has.


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A non-music related way that the next Zelda could take a tip from Galaxy would include a functional automatic camera system that adjusts to the optimal angle for cinematic and play value, and it could also switch to provide an overhead view for certain areas bringing back a classic Zelda vibe, and also change the way the user might look at a puzzle, or how puzzles are introduced.  Though I guess it all depends on how the combat will work, but I think it could be a neat idea.  

One other thing I suspect we'll see in the next Zelda is a co-op mode a lot like Mario Galaxy where the second player could assist with combat and collecting items.  

There will probably be some Super-Guide deal that you'll be able to access when you're stumped on a puzzle or a fight.  Hopefully that'll mean fights and puzzles are more challenging this time around.

[Be_yourself]

There will probably be some Super-Guide deal that you'll be able to access when you're stumped on a puzzle or a fight.  Hopefully that'll mean fights and puzzles are more challenging this time around.

Interesting to see how that would work, i imagine the assistant would have some relevant power.  I hope they do include that, and give us some sort of optional chat system with the assistant instead of those in your face pop ups giving everything away...

[The_Human_Cyborg]

About co-op, I think Zelda has a lot of possibilities. It can't be necessary, but it has to be more than pointing at the screen. Remember all those supposed warriors link has met on his travels? Bringing them into the game for some segments would really spice things up. They could be part of optional dungeons, or massive gauntlets of enemies. Oh, and horseback combat could be infinately improved if a second player were controlling epona.

[Be_yourself]

I think they should use random events for enemies on the overworld. 
The enemies just aimlessly prowl around over the same patch of grass, i think they should start to make them do things like set up camp at night, chase you down on horseback etc. for those that are the more sentient creatures(i.e moblins).
For those that are animals have them sleep and ponder, wander in herds or packs, give the enemies some life.

And as i originally suggested, random events like chasing you down or perhaps being intercepted in the field by a mini boss type enemy, not an extremely time consuming one, just something to give you a bit of adrenaline. They could drop special items so there would be some reward for beating them.

I don't think this would be very hard to do and it would give the overworld and the game in general a bit of spice.

[Beh]

And as i originally suggested, random events like chasing you down or perhaps being intercepted in the field by a mini boss type enemy, not an extremely time consuming one, just something to give you a bit of adrenaline. They could drop special items so there would be some reward for beating them.

Only if they were made very rare, or the option is given to easily escape. Otherwise adventuring would become a chore in the later parts of the game.

[Be_yourself]

^The idea is that they would be quite common, as opposed to having dull moblins walking back and forth over the same patch of grass.  but these happenings would ideally not be such "a big deal" you would be able to run away as it would be in the overworld without any walls or traps blocking your escape.  Also, if you wished to face these "mini boss" type enemies it is in my idea that they would not really be a massivly time consuming mini boss, think Stalfos or Lizfos in OoT type of thing, not a large cutscene and then running around dodging attacks.

[Beh]

Well then that just sounds like a regular enemy. Your post could be much simpler by saying you want tougher enemies to fight in the overworld.

[Be_yourself]

Well then that just sounds like a regular enemy. Your post could be much simpler by saying you want tougher enemies to fight in the overworld.

That's not it at all.

These enemies would be randomly generated. 
Have you played Red Dead Redemption? every so often a random person will run up to you and say something along the lines of "my X has been stolen, could you please retrieve it?" and it would be money or a cart etc.
Its this sort of thing i am trying to get at, I want the enemies of Zelda to be a bit more lively and intelligent in the overworld.  One way of doing this is animal creatures in herds etc. and the more intelligent enemies camping at night etc.  My second way is random events, like tougher enemies appearing or being chased down by moblins on boarback or perhaps run into two groups of monsters fighting each other. 
I don't really want to get NPC characters(i.e people) involved as such as in Zelda they are not expendable like in Red Dead, where you can kill someone and it doesn't matter jack because they are all expendable.
but i guess characters like Keaton or Tingle could be "rescued" or something like that.
The other thing with NPC characters is that most often the events they take place in are scripted.  What i'm suggesting is different because it would happen all the time, not just for a quest or story progression.

so do you see where i'm coming from now?  of course, the types of random attacks and occurrences could change and become more difficult the further you got through the game.