Rew's Zelda Series Run!

[hisak]

Rew and River Devil do know about the Inverted Song of Time, right?

Anyway, Ocarina of Time had some of my favorite dungeons in the entire series, for the most part. Particularly the Forest, Shadow, and Spirit Temples. While there was some wonderful level design in Twilight Princess and Majora's Mask (Stone Tower Temple was phenomenal), nothing's surpassed OoT's quality in design here.

Of course, the overworld is another matter...

[Rew]

@B_Y: I agree with everything you said about OoT. There's just a timeless, classic quality to the game that (IMO) simply hasn't been surpassed. It's my favorite gaming experience.

@RD: Yes, I heartily recommend giving it another shot! Hopefully my tale below will urge you in that direction. I like MM a *lot* more now.

@hisak: I definitely agree about the Forest and Spirit Temples (Shadow Temple was more meh for me, but it definitely had its moments). Also, it took me this second playthrough to realize how awesome Stone Tower Temple is (I absolutely hated it the first time)--perhaps the most brilliant temple in the series, despite the fact the boss pretty much sucks.



And that's a wrap for Majora's Mask! Actually, I finished it Thursday night, but I've been lazy and haven't updated this thread until now! :o

Man O man, what a difference a second playthrough makes. My impressions of LoZ:MM went from loathing in 2006 to sheer admiration now in 2010 (pretty much the opposite of how LA went, oddly enough). One of the first things that jumped out to me in the beginning was just how wide open the game was. According to one source I saw, it's possible get as many as 20 Pieces of Heart before even entering the first dungeon! It's sort of overwhelming.

And while the time limit gave me a bit of trouble in my initial '06 playthrough, it really wasn't a factor this time. That's the thing about MM--it disciplines you to have a plan, a strategy going into each cycle of three days. Heck, the most annoying thing about the time limit oftentimes was too much time--i.e., just standing around and waiting for a certain time so that I could achieve a certain task for a side quest (the legendary Anju/Kafei side quest is most notorious for this).

The one genuine piece of grief that I have with this game is how limited the save feature is. For all intents and purposes, you can ONLY save when you go back in time to Day 1 (at which point, you lose all your ammo, dungeon progress, etc.). It's woefully impractical and makes finishing dungeons especially harrowing. I found that when it came to bosses and doing things afterward, I was worried not so much about dying or running out of time--but the game glitching and forcing me to start hours' worth of progress all over again. I deliberately chose the VC version to play so as to avoid the freeze glitch that so hampered the Collector's Edition, but even on VC my game froze once--right in the middle of a battle with Goht the Giant Mechanical Goat. Now thankfully that battle was not the original battle at the end of an arduous climb through Snowhead Temple (rather it was just the beginning of a side quest)...but that still put me on pins and needles anytime I made a lot of progress for the rest of the game.

One thing that I definitely liked, though, was that this was the first Zelda game that did not have a death counter. And in the case of this particular playthrough that came very much in handy at one point early on. At Woodfall, while attempting to make my way up to where you summon Woodfall Temple, I made the STUPID STUPID STUPID mistake of trying to ascend as human Link. So I'm trying to fight a Hiploop, and it knocks me into the poisonous water. It's deep water too. So I have to swim like hell all the way to a place where I can get out as Link's life meter is steadily fading away. I finally make it to dry ground with ONE-QUARTER HEART to spare, I kid you not! Then a lucky shot by a Mad Scrub puts an end to me. So I was thanking every god in the Hyrulean pantheon that there's no death counter in this game, or else I would've had to do the entire Southern Swamp/Deku Palace/Woodfall sequence all over again, from scratch. Oh, and something I've learned afterward: You have to do that Woodfall part as Deku Link, because if Deku Link gets knocked in the water, he just respawns with no damage (aside from that inflicted by an enemy).

It's kind of funny to me how such a huge game takes place in a relatively small area (hub + surrounding field + ranch + four regions with four dungeons). But this was a pleasure to replay, and there was a lot of both joy and a lot of angst too. I remembered Gyorg being one of the hardest bosses in the series. But this time around with Chateau Romani and Zora Link's electric shield, he wasn't as much of a problem (I still needed to use a Potion, though). Also, I think racing the beaver brothers as Zora Link is my favorite mini-game in Zelda--swimming (as a Zora) is fun! I'd forgotten just how agonizing that horrid Deku Playground was. That one on the second day took me something like 10-20 tries; it was ridiculous. And then there's the Heart Piece you earn from jumping the islands in the Great Bay that the old fisherman opens up. It's like it's not hard but really hard at the same time--the game will completely psych you out. I was seriously throwing so many colorful invectives at the TV at that point that I was just inventing profanities. >__<

By far the two hardest of the game's 52 Heart Pieces were both Shooting Galleries--in the swamp and in Clock Town. In '06, I remembered the swamp one being the hardest, but this time the Town Shooting Gallery definitely took the cake. I got 49 so many times it was ridiculous. But when I finally did get a perfect 50, I think my hands were shaking. With the Swamp Shooting Gallery, you can just shoot like a mad man with no penalty, so that one didn't take quite as long. Starting with 500 Rupees, I was down to 150 or so when I finally won the Heart Piece in Clock Town. By contrast, I was only down to 440 when I won it at the swamp.

So yeah, this is what 100% completion looks like in Majora's Mask:

All masks, Heart Containers, and everything. That's NOT an easy accomplishment in this game. I think MM is far and away the most difficult game to collect all Heart Containers.

But I forced myself to get all masks and Heart Pieces before the grand finale (well, all except the 4 HP's located inside the moon). And I have to say, I think MM might have my favorite climax of any game in the series. Going back to where you started, facing off against the Skull Kid, calling the Giants, watching them physically stop the moon, and then being transported inside to an idyllic sunlit green meadow. It was positively brilliant. Both N64 Zeldas had such phenomenal climax sequences and endings.

It's time to revise my rankings!
1. Ocarina of Time
2. A Link to the Past
3. Majora's Mask
4. Link's Awakening
5. The Legend of Zelda
6. The Adventure of Link

That's already a big jump compared to where MM had been previously on my list (somewhere in the bottom half, I believe).


So yeah, six games are already in the can. When I first started this marathon, I never had the slightest inkling that I would be this far this early. To be finished with the first six Zelda games before even the start of May--I'm amazed I've been able to do it! (Originally, I was planning to devote the entirety of May just to finishing OoT and MM, haha.) Still, I definitely need a break to catch up on a few things IRL. But in a few days, I will move on next to Oracle of Seasons.

Dear gods, the Oracle games. I really don't like these games that much--or at least I didn't when I played them back in 2007. The music is a big step down from LA. They also lack a lot of the charm that LA had but still possess all of the primitive gameplay and irritation. There are some good things, though. OoS has some pretty epic boss battles (although let me just state that I hate hate HATE Digdogger--I'm dreading that battle more than anything). OoA has some nice plot quirks and does some neat things with time travel that hadn't been done in OoT and MM; some of its mini-games are fun. Of course, the Goron Dance is NOT among them. Oh, and OoS has Subrosia. I love Subrosia and its Subrosian inhabitants. =D

But there's one very refreshing change from MM in the Oracle games--I can save at will again! 8)

The biggest thing about the Oracle games (and why I'm playing both of them twice each, for a grand total of four playthroughs) is the Magical Ring side quest. There are 64 of those buggers, and many of them are just found randomly. (Side note: I really hate randomness in Zelda. Just sayin'.) Some are more specific and easy to obtain. Others are ridiculously difficult to win (hello, Bomber's Ring!). Some are absurdly rare (like the ever-valuable Green Ring). Still, despite some randomness and some really hard ones to get, I actually enjoy collecting the rings--especially early on when every one you get is a new one!

But I'm convinced that getting all 64 rings is one of the greatest achievements in all of Zelda (it's seriously on par with a 000 file in Zelda II). Stay tuned to see how I do...

[hisak]

Rew didn't make one mention of Ikana Canyon or the Stone Tower. Those areas made the game for me. I might have another game on my "to replay" list this summer.

[Rew]

Rew didn't make one mention of Ikana Canyon or the Stone Tower. Those areas made the game for me. I might have another game on my "to replay" list this summer.

Also, it took me this second playthrough to realize how awesome Stone Tower Temple is (I absolutely hated it the first time)--perhaps the most brilliant temple in the series, despite the fact the boss pretty much sucks.

Ikana Canyon in general was okay. The Gibdo sidequest beneath the well was somewhat tedious, and I still think it's really creepy that--even without the curse and the Gibdos wandering around outside--a father and daughter live alone together in a music house in an abandoned canyon.

[hisak]

Ctrl-F failed me.

I still think it's really creepy that--even without the curse and the Gibdos wandering around outside--a father and daughter live alone together in a music house in an abandoned canyon.

The whole thing was awesome.

[mikecamper]

There's also something about "MM" too, where it just feels like if you don't play it 100%.... you're not really playing it.  I dunno, none of the other titles are anything like that for me. It's a hell of a game, I know THAT.

That being said, it's the only 3-D title to this day on which I have failed to complete a 3-heart run.  Done it as far as the final showdown.  Spent the better part of two days trying to take Majora down but finally had to give up, never returning to finish the job.

I many times have challenged myself to beat it 100% going through the 3 days as few times as possible.  My best to this day is still seven times.

[Rew]

@hisak: Yeah, I guess it's sort of awesome in a creepy kind of way.

@mike: It probably gives that feeling because if you don't help all of the NPC's, part of the ending will be blank (or so I'm told--I've never beaten MM before without having all the masks). As for the 3-heart run, dude, if you made it past Gyorg with just 3 hearts, that's MAJOR props right there!




At any rate...

That's it for Oracle of Seasons, Part I! Yep, that's right, Part I--because there will be a Part II, but I won't get to that until later. Because for now, it's off to Oracle of Ages next. First, I'll recap OoS for a bit.

So the thing I hate most about the Oracle games (and it's still a heavy irritant for me) is the vast amount of randomness involved in the games. At least two of the Heart Pieces (in each game) are randomized, one being found only in a Gasha Tree, the other in a Maple encounter. Magic Potions, unless you want to pay a whopping 300 Rupees for one, are also randomized. And then there are the Magic Rings. Thankfully in this playthrough, I got lucky and scored a few of the more useful rings surprisingly early. Maple's Ring was one of the earliest ones that I got, and it was soon followed by the Gasha Ring. Most astonishing of all was getting the Green Ring (right before I faced off against Onox, in fact). You have to understand--I've never gotten the Green Ring this early. In fact, before today I thought you had to have beaten Ganon and been on your third playthrough to get it. But here I got it on my first. Score!!

This playthrough, which in terms of sheer difficulty level will likely be the hardest because of just starting out, went remarkably smoothly. Digdogger was That One Boss for me, at least in my memory. I've never been good at using the Magnetic Glove to control the spiked ball you have to use to fight him. Thankfully, I beat him on my first try on this run (though it took a Potion to get through it). Gohma really should've been That One Boss, however--I ran out of hearts, used a Potion, and then beat him with something like only half a heart to spare. YIKES. I was pissed when I ran out of hearts on Manhandla when he had ONLY ONE HIT left, then I killed him easily after the unnecessary Potion refill. Ugh. (BTW, Quicksand Ring in Manhandla's room makes the battle infinitely easier. I didn't know that before this particular run.)

But let me just say this. I love the Red Ring. I LOVE the Red Ring!

Seriously, it makes all the rest of the bosses in this game a joke. Remember how hard Gleeok was in the original Zelda? Surely he must be extra hard in this game! Not with the Red Ring. Same with Medusa Head and even Onox himself. Seriously, three spin attacks for the first phase, three more for the second, and I think only five or six were needed on his dark dragon form. And that was ball game.


So yeah, like I said, Ages is up next. I typically find Ages much more annoying than Seasons, and we'll see if that holds true this time. (The time travel gimmick is far more irritating to implement than changing seasons.) The thing I'm dreading most here by far, of course, is the Goron Dance. You have to do it a couple times in order to advance in the quest, but those don't worry me--those are easy. No, for 100% completion--and the ONLY way to get the Bomber's Ring--you have to score perfectly on PLATINUM, and even then you MIGHT get the Bomber's Ring, or some other worthless ring instead.

If I still have my sanity intact after I'm finished with Ages, I'll let you guys know.

[mikecamper]

@hisak: Yeah, I guess it's sort of awesome in a creepy kind of way.

@mike: It probably gives that feeling because if you don't help all of the NPC's, part of the ending will be blank (or so I'm told--I've never beaten MM before without having all the masks). As for the 3-heart run, dude, if you made it past Gyorg with just 3 hearts, that's MAJOR props right there!

Well beating Gyorg was an infuriating ordeal, and I almost gave up right there.  I must confess, I wound up getting on Youtube for assistance on how to defeat him..  something that naturally involved employing a method more efficient than I was used to, given that before I always had the breathing room of having many hearts.

And you are correct about the ending if you dont get all the masks.  The cutscenes related to the masks that you see on a total ending are replaced, instead, by just an image of the mask (rotating... for whatever reason) against a plain black background. Boring, sure.. but I presume the purpose is to allow a first-time player to get an idea of what tasks he/she is still missing, were he/she to decide to go back and try to finish.

[Rew]

@mike: I'd love to see a YouTube vid of someone beating Gyorg with only three hearts (or better yet, a no-damage run). Speaking of which, I might look up a bare bones mask-less MM ending--or well, as mask-less as you can get. A few are required to beat the game.



Anyway, I'm a little late on this, but Oracle of Ages is down! Well, the first run of OoA anyway (the linked game). I'm already underway on the next Ages run (using the Hero's Secret, which is basically an unlinked game, except you start with an extra Heart Container and the Victory Ring--but there's no password/secret stuff with characters or Hero's Cave in this one).

So yeah, OoA and I have a rather checkered history--bluntly put, it's certainly not my favorite Zelda game (and is actually in the running to be my least favorite). The time travel gimmick is really annoying and tedious to use. You have to watch that little animation EVERY TIME Link time travels--made all the worse if you just happen to use the Harp of Ages where there's a rock or building at the other time, forcing you back and having to try again.

Unlike Seasons, Ages specializes in mini-games. Unfortunately, they're almost all crap. Seriously, the Goron Dance is horrible, and will test your sanity in ways you never thought possible. That Lynna Village target practice game is pretty fun the first few times you play, but when you're playing it for the hundredth time trying to win that absurdly rare Light Ring L-2, it'll make you want to punch kittens. PUNCH KITTENS. The only genuinely fun mini-game in OoA is the Target Carts mini-game.

That said, Ages does have its strong points. Its plot is a lot more sophisticated than Seasons and introduces new characters and new complexities. Ralph is a lovable little scrappy, especially when he learns that Queen Ambi, whom he tries to destroy to save Nayru and everyone else, is his own ancestor, which would wipe out his own existence. Veran is a much more delicious villain than Onox any day (heck, she's better than Twinrova and Ganon in this game). Also, Ages has a much stronger puzzle emphasis than Seasons. Some of the puzzles are dazzlingly brilliant. I personally am not too much into puzzles, so that doesn't really do much for me.

But between having to perfect the Goron Dance and play the target practice game more times than most people change their underwear in a year, just to get a couple solitary rings, it's too much. The time travel mechanic was abysmally executed gameplay-wise, and some of it doesn't even make sense geographically either. Why is there a bland prairie in the present where in the past is the majestic Ambi's Castle? And where is the Wall of Restoration in the present, and why is it replaced by a level river? Ages also has some of the worst bosses in the Zelda franchise. Seriously, Smog? A puzzle boss? And don't even get me started on Head Thwomp--a complete LUCK-BASED battle.

I was very proud of myself for perfecting the Goron Dance on Platinum and winning the coveted Bomber's Ring on Sunday. Then I followed it up by completing the Hero's Cave immediately afterward. That place is a doozy, but it's two rooms in particular that make it one of the most nightmarish dungeons in all of Zelda--that lava room where you have to move the colored die around and after that the diagonal/perpendicular gap jumping room. *shudders*

After completing the Hero's Cave, I thought my labors were done. I sought merely to play the target practice game, win the Light Ring L-2, and finish from there. Oh, how I underestimated the sheer miraculous nature of winning that ring. Seriously, I was at that one mini-game for four hours straight on Sunday night and still couldn't get it. (You can see part of my frustration with that in the count thread, ha.) I was...well, let's just say I got so infuriated that I was embarrassed by myself when I woke up the next morning. At any rate, I finally gave up and beat Veran, Twinrova, and Ganon last night.

(Update: By the grace of God I finally, FINALLY won the Light Ring L-2 earlier tonight. I did so by scoring a 500 exactly. Apparently that was the magic number. Never again!)

So going into the replay of Ages and after that Seasons, I only have a few rings left to win! Earlier tonight I got the Victory Ring and (as noted above) Light Ring L-2. All that remains are two rings earned from password secrets from Ages to Seasons, as well as one from the Seasons version of the Hero's Cave. The only other one is the Rang Ring L-2, the last of the randomized rings, but unfortunately probably the rarest. Perhaps I'll get win-the-lottery lucky and get it before facing Ganon a second time.

We'll see on my next update.

[River Devil]

You are such a trooper, Rew.  I get angry and frustrated just playing the digging game or chest game in the Village of Outcasts in ALttP for a half hour just to get the heart-pieces.  I can't imaging playing the same mini-game for 4 hours straight!  Forget punching kittens, I'd be so mad at that point that I would have to choke out a gorilla.

[hisak]

And don't even get me started on Head Thwomp--a complete LUCK-BASED battle.

Hmm? It's all in the timing, Rew. Once you get it down you should be able to damage him without worrying about luck.

I always enjoyed the Goron Dance, but I seem to be in the minority there.

[Rew]

@River Devil: Thankfully, no animals were harmed in the making of my Oracle run. It was a near thing, though. (And I'm definitely looking forward to the eased up version of the digging game in LttP on GBA!)

@hisak: So it can be timed? I suspected but was never really sure. I imagine if I had done some more digging on GameFAQs I could've found a proper strategy. It's over now, and that's all I care about. And you're definitely in the minority on the Moron Dance. The Subrosian Dance is pretty fun, though.



So, that's (at long last) a wrap for both Oracle games! And good God am I glad they're done. I know that most Zelda games (and video games in general) have a certain element of randomness to them, but the Oracle series just takes it to the most absurd degree imaginable. It shouldn't take me hours to track down one Piece of Heart or Magic Ring with no exercise of or improvement in skill involved. Predictably, I had far more trouble with the randomness involved in Ages than I did in Seasons. But take Majora's Mask as an example. Everything you get in that game, everything that happens--EVERYTHING--you get it all by the strength of your own hand. If you're not skilled enough, you'd better improve until you are good enough. There is no luck, no randomization. You EARN everything in that game. With the Oracles, you're sometimes better off stopping by the convenience store and purchasing a lottery ticket with how rare some of that crap is.

But still, I did it. Somehow. I obtained all Heart Pieces in all four playthroughs (I wanted to knock Maple into a boiling vat of lava before it was over, though), and yes...I managed the most daunting feat of collecting all 64 rings across both games. And NEVER again! This was just too much. The last ring was the Rang Ring L-2, notorious for being perhaps the rarest ring in the game. Thank the Hylian gods for that Gasha soil patch at Crescent Island in the past. That's what got me the game's final prize.

I have to agree with whoever said they enjoy the Ages -> Seasons storyline over Seasons -> Ages. Link getting a statue at the end of Ages, and then Zelda coming to talk to the villagers in Horon Village I thought was really well done. The only thing the other storyline has over it is the fact that in a linked game of Ages Link must rescue Zelda from Vire in a Donkey Kong arcade style side-scrolling mini-stage. DONKEY KONG. And it works out surprisingly well in a Zelda game! It's one of Ages' few redeeming qualities.

So yeah, as you can tell, I don't like Ages too much. It has its moments, and it certainly had a great deal of potential. But there's just too much fail in that game. Hell, even the music sucked, and I always like Zelda music, even on Game Boy (LA had a wonderful soundtrack)--even OoS beat OoA in the music department. In OoA, the Lynna City and Fairies' Woods themes made me want to rip my ears off my head. OoS by contrast had Tarm Ruins, a tune that's both soothing and haunting--very sublime. I still can't figure out why Horon Village sounds like Zelda's Lullaby--perhaps it's because that's where Zelda will try to encourage the villagers at the end of a linked game? Hmmm...

Anyway, despite the fact that Seasons and Ages are, for all intents and purposes, two halves of a single meta-game, there's considerable distance between them in my rankings. Sure, Seasons does have its moments of frustration and annoyance (mainly with the randomness factor that plagues both games), but it improves on Ages in almost every category. It has better music, the seasons gimmick was executed much more smoothly than Ages' time travel. The four gold beasts are epic, and it has friggin' Subrosia. Subrosia and its resident Subrosians are boss! The game is filled with all kinds of shout-outs and homages to Zelda 1 but doesn't get carried away with it. Heck, all the bosses from Zelda 1 return--but more badass and much more difficult than ever. The bosses (and dungeons) in Seasons are definitely more challenging than in Ages, but it's a fair and worthy challenge. I'll take the likes of Mothula, Manhandla, and Gleeok any day over failures like Head Thwomp, Shadow Hag, and especially Smog. (Ramrock is pretty awesome, though.) And Onox's final form beats the hell out of Veran's final form, even if Veran's plot was a lot more compelling than Onox's. Okay, so Seasons doesn't beat Ages in EVERY category, but most of them.

So here now are my updated rankings:
1. Ocarina of Time
2. A Link to the Past
3. Majora's Mask
4. Link's Awakening
5. Oracle of Seasons
6. The Legend of Zelda
7. The Adventure of Link
8. Oracle of Ages

Yep, that's right. Zelda II has finally lost its spot at the bottom, Ages having eclipsed it at last. Zelda II can be a nightmare of a game, but it's the kind of challenge that keeps me coming back for more, keeps me strategizing on how to improve my game--and if you're skilled enough, it can be one of the most rewarding experiences in gaming. The same is NOT the case for Ages. It's not the most difficult game in the series, but a lot of the supposed difficulty is more irritation than anything else, with none of the enjoyability. And of course there's the randomness factor, which is strangely worse in this one than in its twin sister, Seasons. Ages is just an experience of ugh for me, but I think I've devoted enough space to my utter loathing for that one. So let's move on, shall we?


Up next is A Link to the Past / Four Swords!

It's sort of another two-in-one deal. But this will be far more pleasant (and I'm pretty sure won't take me as long). LttP is always a pleasure for me, especially this iteration, which makes things a bit simpler than the SNES original. For one thing, I can save this time, which I will definitely be taking advantage of. Also, things like the digging game and that one room in the Ice Palace are made a lot less tedious. The only real downside will be Link's constant and annoying voice work throughout the game--and by voice work I mean his unnecessary screaming, grunting, and more screaming.

And, co-starring The Hylia's very own Big Tater, I will plunge into Four Swords! I've played this before, and it's a charming if short and simple little game. It's surprisingly fun on its own merits, as I recall. If I can just get Mattie to keep going through all three quests (you have to play it three times to get all three sets of keys and to really "complete" the game), then it should go by pretty fast.

I'm especially looking forward to the Palace of the Four Sword, a kind of "Hero's Cave" to this duet of games. And it is a tough-as-holy-hell bonus dungeon too! There's also the riddle quest, which surprised me by stumping me the last time I played it. We'll see how I do this time.


UPDATE:
Anyway, my camera was on the fritz last night, so tonight I have screens! This is my Oracle ring collection--all 64 of them. Also known as my blood, sweat, and tears from the last two weeks.






Now one benefit that the Oracles have over other Zelda games is that I can share my hard fought loot with others! So if you too would like to have all 64 rings on your file but without all the insanity of farming Gasha Trees or playing mini-games repetitively for hours on end, you can use my Ring Secret:

Sr5R< D♥♠5▲
HQ←s↑

Sharing is caring!

[Rew]

No responses this time, eh?



Anyway, I've finished with A Link to the Past and Four Swords, and it definitely took me (well, us--my friend Mattie was the one playing it with me) long enough. LttP didn't take me long at all, as usual. But FS, geez. What's basically just a bonus game with three relatively brief quests ended up being stretched out across an entire week. At first we had connection problems--we couldn't even get the game started! I concluded that my third-party cable was crap, and since they don't really make GBA link cables anymore, I couldn't make a quick trip to GameStop--I had to order it online. Once it finally got here, I tried it out, and it didn't work. But in a spark of genius, I dug out the old cable, hooked it up a subtly different way, and lo and behold it worked. That stupidity on my part still delayed us several days, though. And Mattie got sick a couple times, so we would have to reschedule. Ugh, it was grueling just getting this game off the ground. That's what's so frustrating about it being multiplayer only. That was a stupid idea, Nintendo. (Thankfully they fixed that for the sequel, FSA.)

LttP, by contrast, took me very little time at all. In fact, while waiting for that other cable to come in the mail, I played it a second time (well, third if you include the SNES original on VC from earlier in this marathon) on the other game pak, since you have to have two game paks to play FS. Both were very smooth runs. Not only did I never get a game over, but I never even used any potions or fairy revivals--well, not for the main game. It was a much different story in the Palace of the Four Sword. That place will test you to the limit, especially those boss battles. On the first file, I used two Blue Potions (one against Helmasaur King, and the other against the Four Dark Links), and in the second file I used one Blue Potion (again the Mothula trio) and had a Fairy revive me while fighting the fourth and final Dark Link--still no game overs, though. And the riddle quest was as easy as could be. Granted, I was going more from memory on that one than my own riddle solving skill, but still.

Four Swords turned out to be surprisingly daunting, though. The first quest should've been easy enough--just gather a thousand Rupees per stage, then move on to the final stage and kick Vaati's ass. Mattie and I had no problem with the 1000-Rupee part. But Vaati's Palace kicked our ass. Heck, at one point we made it all the way up to Vaati himself and were on the verge of finishing him off--when we got a game over. It seriously seemed like Mattie and I would take turns dying on him until finally we ran out of Rupees to revive the other. (How in the world did I make it through Zelda II without a game over, but I got several in FS, which I previously considered the easiest game in all the Zelda series? I can just blame Mattie!--well, for the most part. ) We made sure to build up a nice supply of Rupees before fighting him the next time, though, and neither one of us died on him ever since.

The second quest (3000 Rupees per stage to win the keys) went as smoothly as could be, including the Vaati portion. It's that blasted third quest and its absurd requirement of 5000 Rupees per stage to win the Hero's Key that really tested us. It took us a couple tries each for the Sea of Trees and Talus Cave, and both times we were holding our breath during that final Rupee tally after the boss battle. Death Mountain would prove our undoing, however. It didn't help that we did get over 5000 during the second quest, but it didn't count then. The first couple times we came up short. Then there was another time where we pretty much all but had it--4500 going into the boss battle, and we were feeling good. But the battle took longer than we expected, and Mattie died a couple times. By the end of it, we gained 4950 for the whole stage. 4950! We were demoralized after that. In fact, we made a couple more halfhearted attempts and literally quit for the night. We actually came back to it today, and again the first couple times we didn't get anywhere close. Finally, when we did get it today, we managed to get it with something like 6700 Rupees--it wasn't even a contest. Ah, Four Swords. You are such a temperamental little game.

After that came the epic 12-level final stage, and we beat Vaati pretty soundly that time, and thus finished the game in style. Then Mattie went home with some sort of stomach problem. I think she was just sick of this game by then. Truth be told, I was too. I still played several more stages by myself just to bring one of the file's medallion counts up to 10 to unlock the LttP riddle quest on both. (Yes, I played using both the GCN controller and GBA at the same time--it got kind of tricky in places, but I've done it before. I only recommend it for Talus Cave, though.) The nice thing about the menu screen on this game is that it shows pretty comprehensive progress on both games. Behold my hard earned complete file(s) here:


Also, despite my teasing for the deaths she died and the Rupees she cost our team, I have to give a huge thanks to Mattie for playing through this game with me and sticking with it all the way to 100% completion, even though it looked daunting at times. She's not an experienced Zelda gamer, but she still kept at it with me--even when she was feeling sick at the end of our game. I simply wouldn't have been able to make it through this part of my Zelda marathon without her.

As for FS itself, for all the irritation the game can cause, it's very remarkable considering it's just a bonus game tack-on to an established classic. You would expect something like this to come on an already pre-rendered LttP engine with all LttP (or OoS/A or LA) sprites and backgrounds, with remixed music. Nope, instead we get a completely new art style (showcasing Toon Link's debut before even WW) with all-new sprites and backgrounds. It also introduces such new concepts as the Four Sword and Vaati, both of which would take on a life of their own in the series. And the music is almost entirely brand new and original--and pretty catchy at that! (I caught Mattie humming to it a few times.) Ironically FS's more advanced successor, FSA, would fail mightily in this area--having the graphical schema copied largely from LttP and having almost the entire soundtrack being remixed LttP themes. The items in FS are basically copied and pasted from older handheld Zelda games (featuring the Magnetic Glove and Roc's Cape from OoS and even BowWow from LA!), and so are some of the puzzles. But there are puzzles and enemies that are quite original and very nicely implemented with the multiplayer interface.

FS's biggest strength can turn into a weakness, interestingly enough--the randomized layout. Every time you enter a stage, it's something different each time. In fact, it's even layered--you might get layout A again, but the center of the stage is something different than when you got layout A earlier! This adds nice variety. The downside is that when you're doing something tough like going for 5000 Rupees and a Hero's Key, some layouts are practically impossible for attaining such a goal.

It's a charming little game in its own right, an entertaining diversion. But at the end of the day--with no side quests, NPC's, towns/villages, overworld/dungeon distinction, item inventory--it's not much of a Zelda game. Here are my new rankings:
1. Ocarina of Time
2. A Link to the Past
3. Majora's Mask
4. Link's Awakening
5. Oracle of Seasons
6. The Legend of Zelda
7. The Adventure of Link
8. Four Swords
9. Oracle of Ages


So now that brings me to Ocarina of Time: Master Quest! While I'm no stranger to OoT, I've only played this particular version of it one other time. The only difference, of course, is that the dungeons have been completely revamped--the overworld is precisely the same as in the original. I do recall the dungeons being tougher, but not that much harder than the original--heck in a few cases, even easier. We'll see how that appraisal holds up on my return to the game. And thankfully, this is the last game that I'll be "replaying," as I've done enough repeats in this marathon. I played through each Oracle game twice, LttP three times, and FS three times. Now it's the second go-round for OoT. At least this final repeat run is taking place on my favorite game of all. It'll be a fond farewell for Ocarina of Time, I hope.

[Big Tater]

Yay Four Swords! wooooo

[hisak]

So I'm not missing anything big with Four Swords? Sounds good. I do wonder what it would be like if Four Swords DS actually happened. Oh well.

[DarkLink]

Kick it into high gear, youre like (insert fraction) the way there!

[Rew]

@Mattie: I'm surprised you don't hate the game by now.

@hisak: Nah, you're not missing much. The plot is even simpler than Zelda 1. Link and Zelda go to the shrine, Vaati pops free of his seal, kidnaps Zelda to make her his bride, fairies come to tell Link to pull the Four Sword--he does and becomes four Links. Then he must acquire Rupees before the three Great Fairies will give him the three keys to Vaati's Palace. Talk about Adam Smith Hates Your Guts.

The first stage is the Chamber of Insights, a kind of tutorial stage. Then the three main stages are the Sea of Trees (forest), Talus Cave (ice cave), and Death Mountain (volcano). Then comes Vaati's Palace, a dungeon in the sky. When you defeat Vaati, the four Links seal him back in the Four Sword, Zelda is freed, and Link becomes one again before the couple return the sword to its place and go home. The only thing really unique about this game (other than being multiplayer-only) is the fact that the stages have randomly generated layouts every time you enter. I don't think that's ever been done in a Zelda game before or since.

@DL: Thanks! I'm happy to report that by now I'm more than halfway through the series.

[Beh]

Talk about Adam Smith Hates Your Guts.

To my understanding (REFUSE TO CLICK THE LINK BECAUSE I WILL BE ON TVTROPES FOREVER) it's not really that. Adam Smith Hates Your Guts is when the market of a game works against you by raising the prices of items over the course of a game. A good in-series example would probably be the the magic bean salesman of OoT. He sells you the first been for I think 10 rupees, and then sells the final one for 100 or so.

[Rew]

Talk about Adam Smith Hates Your Guts.

To my understanding (REFUSE TO CLICK THE LINK BECAUSE I WILL BE ON TVTROPES FOREVER) it's not really that. Adam Smith Hates Your Guts is when the market of a game works against you by raising the prices of items over the course of a game. A good in-series example would probably be the the magic bean salesman of OoT. He sells you the first been for I think 10 rupees, and then sells the final one for 100 or so.

I know it's not completely accurate. It was the closest trope I could find, though.


In other news, MQ is going swimmingly. Literally--I'm at the Water Temple.


UPDATE: And now I have mastered the Master Quest!

There's not a whole lot to be said about this one; it was a pretty smooth run. The dungeons are said to be more difficult this time around, and in the case of the first three (the Spiritual Stone dungeons), that's definitely true. Facing Fire Keese, Giant Deku Babas, and being assaulted by Baby Gohmas everywhere inside the Deku Tree on just three hearts without bottles can be quite harrowing. Dodongo's Cavern featured some really tricky crap, especially this one torch-lighting sequence. Jabu-Jabu's Belly was somewhat harder but not a lot--the main thing with that one is that it's just bat**** crazy weird. Seriously, you have cows inside of there. I mean supposedly Jabu-Jabu could've swallowed them, but how do you account for the ones sticking their heads out of the walls like they're mantle pieces?

Look at this:


That's just crazy! Two cow heads, a rocky boulder, a jar, and a clump of tall grass. All inside a fish. That place is trippy as hell.

And I swear they made Bigocto faster in this one than in the original. Because I've never had so much trouble with him before in my life. No matter how fast I went, rolling, hugging the spikes, I could not catch up with him. I had to do it the cheap way, and even then I was unsuccessful a lot of times. I actually had to use Lon Lon Milk against this mini-boss to keep from running out of hearts--I haven't had to do that in years! God I was glad when I finally beat him.

So as hard as the first three dungeons were, the adult temples were surprisingly easier! The Forest Temple was no sweat and largely the same. Fire Temple and Water Temple were definitely easier than in the original, ditto for the Ice Cavern. Bottom of the Well was a substantial challenge, especially getting the Lens of Truth from the five ReDeads surrounding the chest. Protip: Once one of them paralyzes you, you're as good as dead because the others will keep paralyzing you while taking turns dry humping you.

The Shadow Temple was nothing remarkable, but the Spirit Temple certainly amped up the challenge level a bit from the original (of course, the original was embarrassingly easy too)--and required a good bit more back-and-forth between young and adult Links if you wanted to acquire everything.

Finally, there was Ganon's Castle, and those barrier rooms were definitely a lot harder this time around. I think those Forest, Shadow, and especially Fire barrier sequences are going to give me nightmares for some to come. I've come to hate Silver Rupees! D=

Of course, after that, in Ganon's Tower proper, everything is exactly the same as the original OoT. And I have to say I'm pretty impressed with how my final battle went. I was disappointed while finishing the original earlier this spring when Ganondorf never unleashed his uber-multi-magic attack. Well, he did today, and I used a Biggoron spin attack to deflect it back at him, immediately impaled him with a Light Arrow, jumped to the central platform, and killed him with a single jumping sword attack. There is no cooler way to end the battle than that! Afterward, I descended, beat Ganon, and set in to watch the end credits. Unfortunately, my game disc messed up during the credits, forcing me to reset. After wiping the disc off a bit, I tried again. This time, I beat Ganondorf after just two successful volleys (no damage) and then beat Ganon afterward taking no damage at all. In fact, the only time I suffered any damage was from falling rocks during the castle escape sequence (1 heart)--not even those two Stalfos hurt me. I think it might've been the first time I beat both incarnations of the final boss with no damage. Oh, and the credits this time continued all the way to the end. Yay.



So up next is the (for me) long awaited The Wind Waker!

This is such a great game I've been wanting to get back to for some time but never have. I really haven't played it since I was first introduced to the game in 2006, almost four years ago exactly. Back then I played the hell out of it so much I eventually got tired of it. Now it's been so long that I'm just itching to get back to it. It has such a fun, adventurous feel to it, the music is great--really the whole atmosphere is. And there's so much to do in this game!

However, that also means that this one is going to take a while. If you go for 100% completion (and I always do), this is by far the biggest Zelda of them all. It will take me longer to complete this one than MM or TP; I plan to devote several weeks to it. So you all may not hear from me for a while! (I might update about midway through the game.) But yeah, the main big thing is going to be that Nintendo Gallery side quest--taking pictures of every character and enemy in this vast game so Carlov the sculptor can make figurines out of them all. And even after that there's still all the sea charts, Tingle Tuner side quest, Pieces of Heart, exploring all the islands and filling in all the grids on the Great Sea map, gathering Rupees for Tingle, the Triforce quest near the end--lots and lots to do. But I'm still pumped for it!

And I think I'm gladdest of all that I'm finally finished with the Zelda repeats.

[hisak]

Master Quest sounds cool. If I get the chance I might play it sometime. Not in the near future, but eventually (hopefully).

I'm looking forward to your Wind Waker thoughts. Feel free to update more often if you want.