Overworlds

[hisak]

I'm bringing this over from a conversation that HS and I started in the Count, but surprisingly it doesn't seem like we've had many threads on this topic.

Zelda overworlds might be the aspect of the series that's seen the most experimentation over the last 25 years. We've seen the complete sense of freedom of The Legend of Zelda, the RPG-like Hyrule of Zelda II, the secret-filled Light and Dark Worlds of A Link to the Past, the hub-based overworlds of the 3D Zeldas, and the oddly segmented worlds of the DS Zelda games. Which Zelda overworld do you think is the most well designed and the most satisfying to explore?

As I have in the past, I'm putting my vote in for A Link to the Past, which had plenty of optional items and secret caves to be found. No Zelda game since has rewarded exploration as much, though hopefully this might change someday.

[Hyruleansoldier]

PH is a bunch of islands, and basically ST isn't that different since there aren't that many places you can get off the train, and the overworld is boring (and lethal).   The frog tablet wasn't TOO bad in PH.  The Portals in ST are meh - I prefer to warp from anywhere, not having to go to preset places first.  And I always forget where I'll end up so it's not even logical.  Not cool.

OoT still has the best overworld, since everything's connected (and the warp songs are in good locations), so you never feel like you're totally wasting time running around. Plus, there's always multiple ways to travel, like via the Lost Woods (link to Goron City + in front of Zora's Domain) for example.  Or from Gerudo Valley to Lake Hylia to Zora's Domain.   You can usually just see how you wanna get there, there's many possibilities, and most take about the same time.  Sometimes I prefer to just use Epona (for instance starting from Hyrule Castle).  Or warp to the Lost Woods to get to Goron City or Zora's Domain (via the shortcut).  Very organic overworld, many connections = ideal.  There really isn't a better example for this (other than the original LoZ, where you could run all over the world too and pretty much nothing as very remote (only the Top Left corner took a while to get to, even with the closest warp).

MM was good too but relied too much on the Song of Soaring (and wasn't super big).  TP's twilight portals weren't in the best locations either, and most games had too many remote locations, you had to use the warp song/option and would rarely just run over there anymore.   In OoT that's only true for the Desert Colossus.

I guess ALttP wasn't too bad either, since you could use the Ocarina, some teleports in the water, and if you were in the Dark World you could use the Mirror and then use the Ocarina and fly to a nearby dark world portal - you could even get to places the game didn't expect you to be able to go already by taking a small detour here and there, gotta love ALttP.

In LA I guess you didn't need many warp points, there's only 4 + Manbo's Mambo song.  Never really considered this to be a problem - it's not a huge overworld, and you don't need to backtrack a lot so it works fine.

The Oracles were pretty decent with the pegasus seeds.

AoL, eh, no warping, always return to the North Palace, but the overworld was pretty convenient, centralized, pretty much like OoT so again, not really a problem.

TWW could have used more Ballad of Gale warp points, since the distances were BIG, bigger than in any other title, so that kind of ruined it.  It wasn't fun to just sail for minutes on end with not much happening and you just wanting to get to some island.  You needed to backtrack a shitload cause of all the sidequests (many involving the hauling up of treasure, but still).

So yeah best overworlds: OoT > MM > LoZ > TMC > ALttP > TP > Oracles > LA (never bothered me since it's easy to get around, there's not many isolated places you need to go to more than once anyway).

Crappiest overworlds: ST > PH > TWW > AoL (not really an issue but yeah, no warping)

(FS & FSA have a "level select" map so don't have a place in this discussion)

[Carl Jr.]

 Yo dawg, I'mma let you finish, but Link's Awakening had the best overworld.

Link's Awakening is, in many ways, very similar to The Legend of Zelda: The Hyrule Fantasy. Single-screen scrolling? check. Eight dungeons plus a Level-9? Check. Hell, it even had some similar sprites (Moblins, Keese, Keys, Link...). It helps that Tezuka came back to the Zelda team to work on this one.

  That said, the overworld completely betrays THF. THF, as described by Hisak above, gave you nearly the whole world to explore from the start, and what it didn't give you was but two completely unconnected overworld screens. In a way, this kind of worked out even better.

  The overworld broadens as you complete dungeons, up to the point that about midway through the game, you feel like you're very far away from mabe village, even though it's just a field and river away. I think it helped that Link's Awakening had a very strong mariner theme to it. Midway through, you gain pretty much unrestricted access to most of Koholint, and when reach places like Face Shrine and Martha's Bay, where water becomes increasingly abundant, you feel like you've traveled so far that you're at the edge of the world. Now there's weird crystals you need to dash through, teleporting toucan things in dungeons, a whole village full of animals and a desert next to them... even a mermaid!

  The further you get in the game, and the further you venture from Mabe Village, the more interesting and diverse the game becomes, almost as if you are leaving home and visiting foreign lands, with foreign wildlife and customs. Again though, it's only a 16x16 screen overworld. That's the size of two THF overworlds stacked on top of each other, and all the really interesting stuff happens when you go east anyways.

  Of course, keep in mind this is coming from a guy who lives out in central united states, Just between the heartland and the urbanized east half, chicago and beyond. I've never ventured out to, say, New York, let alone on my own.

[Hyruleansoldier]

I think the ability to get around greatly defines an overworld.  You don't want it to feel like a Mario game, where you just select a level from a certain world, and usually don't have to revisit anything in between.

In MM you had this with the Stone Tower: it was an epic journey to get to the top, but then you have the owl statue, so no one ever appreciates the distance anymore, you just warp up.

Come to think of it, they need to bring back Farore's Wind, handiest teleporting skill to date.  It might generate bugs though, if you use it at a start of a room that later you get cut off from and then you're stuck on the other end (even though you could save and quit).  I guess they just want to avoid programming headaches, but really it's a neat skill.  Many RPG's have something similar, where you can set up your own warp points.  Would have been extremely sweet in TWW too.  Many of the warps you don't even need to return to a lot, it's mostly the islands around it.  Also, "roundtrip tickets" like in some RPGs would be nice.  Handy for sidequests, and it wouldn't b(have to) be permanent.