You give me the f***ing creeps, you know that Dexter?

[hisak]

Best episode of the season so far. Still hating Batista and LaGuerta, but this was the most engaged I've been with Dexter's storyline this year. Hopefully the back half of the season is considerably better than the front half was.

[Bidet to you sir]

Awwwwwwwwwwwww he loves her!

[Ezlo's Apprentice]

It's getting better. Though it's not without its inconsistencies and we're not quite up their with Trinity quality, the looming shadow of Robocop is cranking up the tension plenty. And Dexter has no idea he's the real big bad of this season that could change everything like never before. (Doakes working things out in S2 and Rita's death last year were big, but being totally, totally caught out ... Huge. Potentially.)

As Chase and his group...? Well, I'm going to have to overlook a few potential plot holes with this one. For one, is Cole and Lumen's encounter in the lobby going to go unnoticed? If Liddy's such a good PI, will he just not try hauling up those body bags and be done with it? And why has Quinn almost completely lost interest? Is he really that driven by his dick?

[Bidet to you sir]

I know I wouldn't have spoilers in this thread, but this is about largely the title of the final episode.

(click to show/hide)

Love suffereth long, and is kind; love envieth not; love vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up, 5 Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil; 6 Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth; 7 Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things. 8 Love never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away. 9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. 10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away. 11 When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. 12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known. 13 And now abideth faith, hope, love, these three; but the greatest of these is love

For those of you who are not biblically literate because you're just plain dumb, that phrase is a description of how people should see love.

That entire passage is also one of the most commonly read bible verse at weddings.


sooooooo, make of that what you will.

[hisak]

Good episode. The show's starting to regain some of the sense of urgency it had last season. Plus, killing Chris Vance early made me happy.

As Chase and his group...? Well, I'm going to have to overlook a few potential plot holes with this one. For one, is Cole and Lumen's encounter in the lobby going to go unnoticed? If Liddy's such a good PI, will he just not try hauling up those body bags and be done with it? And why has Quinn almost completely lost interest? Is he really that driven by his dick?

First question: Probably not. Something will surely come up when they discover Cole missing. Second question: Body bags got swept away by the undersea current Dexter started exploiting in season two. Third question: Who cares about Quinn?

[Bidet to you sir]

Third question is easily answered, Liddy is both fucking him over for money, while Debra, well Debra is just fucking him.

The whole Vendetta against Dexter is not going to end well for him, and he's starting to realise that.

[Bidet to you sir]

Best episode of the series, right there.
I really like the character driven episodes, I hate the action action kill kill episodes.


Don't get me wrong, I hate the Laguerta character driven arcs.

But despite being hated, because well, she's a teenage girl, episodes about the kids (especially Astor), tend to allow a lot of stuff to happen.

[hisak]

It had some good stuff. Definitely the least irritating Astor's been in the last few seasons. Most of the main plot stuff just felt like set-up, but it does have me looking forward to next week.

Not a fan of Dexter Saves the Day storylines. He's already the weakest anti-hero on television anyway.

[Bidet to you sir]

No the weakest is other cop on walking dead, I mean his only fulfilment to be "a hero that does not fit the archetype" is that he has sex with his best friends wife.

[hisak]

He's not an anti-hero though, he's just an asshole.

Dexter is a serial killer whose actions are no longer openly questioned, which is somewhere between boring and mildly troubling.

[Bidet to you sir]

What about fucking Liddy?

Also Anti-hero is a very very loose term to the point it's almost meaningless, Han Solo would have been called an anti-hero before, now he's just "the rogue"

[hisak]

I don't think the term's meaningless. It perfectly describes the leads of shows like Breaking Bad, Mad Men, Boardwalk Empire, and The Shield. Basically, a protagonist whose actions are in direct conflict with the audience's desire to sympathize completely with the protagonist. (Which is also why supporting characters can't really be categorized as anti-heroes.) It can be incredibly fascinating, and probably the best (if not only) way to tackle this type of subject matter well.

Dexter is basically a vigilante hero who triumphs over evil. Repeatedly. Which becomes less interesting each season.

Characters like Doakes, Quinn, Liddy, etc. don't make up for this either. Obviously, we're made to care that something bad might happen to Dexter (and the show does this well), but we're never made to care about the moral implications of what he does, because the show never bothers to examine them.


But don't get me wrong, I still enjoy the show.

[Bidet to you sir]

Never bothers to examine the implications of his actions? are you fucking kidding me.

If Rita's death and everything after that, as well as well simply the existence of Lumen in the show isn't somehow an examination of the implications then you are clearly watching a different show.

[hisak]

Never bothers to examine the implications of his actions? are you fucking kidding me.

Nope.

But I did say moral implications, not just implications in general. Obviously the show's had very bad things happen to Dexter and the people around him because of what he does (which I acknowledged), but the show never has any ambiguity over whether he should be killing these people in the first place. Sure, the police are pretty close to finding Trinity, but waiting until they find him might put Trinity's family in danger. Miguel is going to go on a killing spree unless Dexter kills him. He's about to let Lila go...until she tries to burn him to death. And now Jordan Chase is going to keep up his human trafficking unless Dexter stops him.

I'd compare him to Batman, but at least Batman's methods are questioned at times. This show is basically "Root for Dexter! and then be sad when something bad happens."

Again, I still enjoy the show because it's very good at building up tension and making its villains threatening, and it can still be thrilling. But I'm never going to put it in my top ten anything.

[Bidet to you sir]

Clearly we have different ideas of moral implication, because it seems pretty moralistic to make the point that he is putting his family in harms way through his destructive behaviour, and that is an immoral action.
The rest of the time, the reason the moral implications of his kills themselves aren't brought into question is because we're taking it from his point of view, most of the times when you see something as black and white it's because dexter has painted it as black and white, personally I've always seen that as a plot device, one of the most important, the world ends up being painted towards the views of a sociopath so we only see his unemotional beep boop robot interpretations.
His lesser victims, story wise also usually don't have enough of a backstory for us to get a moral picture of them.

[hisak]

I guess I can see the argument for this, but it seems like too much of a risk/reward system, instead of asking if Dexter's actually justified in his behavior. Besides, the main reason his wife ended up being killed was because he got too close to Arthur Mitchell while trying to learn how to better live a double life, not because he was following his normal m.o.

I don't mind this about minor victims. In fact, this week was one of the first times it bothered me, because it was all about Dexter swooping into someone's life and saving the day, and as a bonus Harry's proud of him.

And I should probably note that I did like the things that the Trinity storyline did, with Dexter learning not to get too close to his targets. It's too bad that thread hasn't carried over much into this season.

[Bidet to you sir]

Hahaha we don't know that yet, I think it's pretty clear that he shouldn't have brought Lumen into this and she would have been better not taking part, theres still quite a few episodes to really run that home.
They could do something else and have a different moral that I'm not seeing, or even carry that moral on for a while, perhaps as she slowly becomes darker and more dangerous.

I know in some ways you could say it's a "Miguel Prado part 2" but Prado would have killed anyway, frankly I see all the people so far as being parts of Dexters , Brian was purely his sociopathic and playful side, the sick joy he finds in killing. Lilah was his neuroticism and narcisism, Prado was his urge for justice, Mitchell was an anologue for his need to blend in.
And Lumen, Lumen is his innocenece.

Lumen is exactly like Dexter before Harry came to him, "Harry" has just said he's proud of him because he showed sides of his personality he didn't think Dexter was capable of.
Now if you go with my "Lumen is Dexter before Harry" and also "Dexter is acting as Harry" hardly too massive jumps to make, that scene could clearly be seen for anyone who actually understands subtext to be about Lumen just as much as Dexter, Dexter thinks based on his experience that Lumen is broken and is now a killer, he now knows that he is not as broken as he thinks he is and realises without Harry he could have been better.
Eventually he'll realise his first suspicions were correct, Lumen would have been better without him.

[hisak]

Well you're right, we won't know exactly what this season's doing until it's over.

As for each of the guest stars having a part of Dexter's personality, that's definitely true, but I think it's simply a case of seeing what worked in the first season (having a villain that Dexter can relate to) and then doing something similar in every subsequent season.

[Bidet to you sir]

If Julia Stiles and Johnny Lee Miller don't get Emmy Nominations I'd be very surprised.

[hisak]

Stiles no, Miller yes. Not that the Emmys mean anything.

Very pleased with last night's episode.