US Airport Security Checks - Going to far or necessary?

[LLR]

I'll try to post in a non biased manner for the run down... then my take on it.

Earlier this year Air Ports in the US beefed up their security.  TSA employees give more thorough pat downs and bringing in new technology.  The new "Full body scanners" have been the subject of much controversy.  To the small doses of X-rays that everyone (including pilots and staff) must go through to board the plane to the idea of people looking at you completely naked and having the ability to store the image on a personal computer.  The federal government claims these new security steps are necessary to keep the public safe from terrorism.  These new procedures are so far only in select air ports with random checking and testing.  The procedures that are in question is the enhanced pat downs & clothing penetrating x-rays with a mandatory cavity search if refusal of the previous two.  Claims have been made that the x-rays violate rights of privacy by showing would be passengers in the nude.  TSA claims the images are no more provocative than your doctor visit x-rays.  The rest is up to you.

Official site:
http://www.tsa.gov/travelers/airtravel/guidance_international_flights.shtm
http://www.tsa.gov/approach/tech/index.shtm

*Warning The subject of this thread may cross the line of forum rules of nudity and sexual content.  Any admin that sees something is inappropriate please remove it but I'd appreciate a comment about your reaction.  Some of this will no doubt border NSFW and given that this is happening in a public environment is part of the subject.  Reader discretion is advised.  


Ok, my take on this.  First off... yea.. I'm worried about this stuff.  My wife is thinking of flying for the first time across country to Washington State to see her brothers baby being born.  Her worries (besides cost) is the growing backlash of stories that are coming from the air ports.  Here are a few.

You know that part of "x-ray is no more provocative than your doctor visit x-rays"?  well.. you be the judge here.

I'm going to source many of these articles to gizmodo but the links there have further sources as well.  It isn't just gizomdo that is coming up with these stories.

http://lifehacker.com/5690402/what-you-need-to-know-about-the-new-tsa-screenings-and-gropings

Advanced imaging technology safely screens passengers for metallic and nonmetallic threats including weapons, explosives and other objects concealed under layers of clothing without physical contact to help TSA keep the traveling public safe.

further in the article:

The technology has brought up two concerns: privacy (due to the technology seeing through your clothing) and safety (due to low-level x-ray technology being used to generate one of the two images the TSA's scanners generate). If you're curious what the images look like, the TSA has posted a video demonstrating the advanced imaging technology. While the images technically see through clothing, they see through your skin as well. They looks like x-ray images (because, in one of the two cases, they are). With little trust in the TSA these days, there have been many concerns about these images as TSA agents could, potentially, save these "nude" images.

Can You Refuse These New Measures?

The short answer is no. Once you get to security there's no turning back. You're in for some serious consequences if you refuse to participate:

[A]nyone who refuses to complete the screening process will be denied access to airport secure areas and could be subject to civil penalties, the administration said, citing a federal appeals court ruling in support of the rule. The ruling, from the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals, says that "requiring that a potential passenger be allowed to revoke consent to an ongoing airport security search makes little sense in a post-9/11 world. Such a rule would afford terrorists multiple opportunities to attempt to penetrate airport security by 'electing not to fly' on the cusp of detection until a vulnerable portal is found.

If you opt out of the scan, "the TSA is using what they call an 'enhanced pat down' ...These pat downs are much more rigorous and often include the TSA using their palms to touch your genitals in a manner that could feel like sexual assault."

So your choices are:

1.) Photograph me naked
2.) Touch my genitals

Like this guy!>


http://gawker.com/5689925/man-threatened-with-10000-fine-after-refusing-tsa-grope

Or even this:
http://www.newser.com/story/105351/tsa-pats-down-3-year-old.html

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJNY_PTULO4" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJNY_PTULO4</a>

Could it get worse?  Sure.

http://gizmodo.com/5692583/woman-suing-federal-government-after-tsa-screener-exposed-her-breasts-to-entire-airport

Listen, we know the TSA's been unpopular lately. But are they really so bad? What about this time a TSA screener pulled down a woman's blouse while frisking her? And then laughed about it? Yes. Yes, they are that bad.

http://amarillo.com/news/local-news/2010-10-11/lawsuit-airport-search-indecent


What about men?  Are they safe?  Hell no.

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/documents/bizarre/tsa-screener-cited-torture-scanner-case

TSA Screener Cited "Torture" In Scanner Case
The airport screener arrested for assaulting a coworker who taunted him about the size of his penis after his genitalia was exposed by a full-body scanner told police that he snapped after being subjected to “psychological torture” by fellow Transportation Security Administration employees who repeatedly asked him, “What size are you?”

At least air port staff is safe, right?  No...

http://gizmodo.com/5692311/airline-pilots-fight-against-tsa-body-scans-too

Not only individuals are standing up against TSA's body scans and practices, but the most powerful pilot union in the world is fighting them too, according to this ALPA security alert sent by a Continental pilot. Napolitano's  enemy list keeps growing.

So what does the fed say about this?

http://gizmodo.com/5691390/a-message-from-homeland-security-my-way-or-the-highway




Radiation? Sure, might get you out of the scans if you have cancer.
http://gizmodo.com/5692198/a-tsa-success-story


So does this actually work?  Does this keep us safe?  I don't' think so.

http://gizmodo.com/5692351/junk-security-naked-scanners-wont-keep-us-safe

On the night in late October that Saudi intelligence tipped the American government off to a plot to blow up planes using explosives packed in printer cartridges, Pistole got a call from White House counterrrorism czar John Brennan. The TSA was then able to give new marching orders to everyone from air marshals to cargo inspectors. An agency team was even dispatched to Yemen, where the bombs originated. It all seemed shockingly logical for an agency that's generally appears to be anything but. The quick response to intelligence and targeted security measures could provide a partial template for future action. The next step would be questioning passengers and employing high-sensors when travelers' behavior or specific threats warrant - instead of making us all get digitally nude.

It seems the best way to stop terrorists is by intelligence.  Not get naked and groped in public.  On this incident the plan was thwarted by tip offs.  Tel Aviv is still the most secure air port in the world and they wont use these machines.  





There has to be better ways.   I'll sign this off to you guys now.  

[hisak]

So I'm going to go ahead and say that all on-topic NSFW images in this thread should either be behind spoiler tags or linked with a warning (the latter was done properly above).

I guess I agree that there's way more effective ways to stop attacks than these checks. It seems really silly.

[Bidet to you sir]

Yeah that image is fake.

An xray would not produce an image that would show shadows.

also this.
OH YEAH THESE PICTURES ARE OF A NUDE GERMAN MODEL, DO NOT LOOK IF YOU DO NOT LIKE TO LOOK AT PERKY TITTIES ON A BANGING HOT BLONDE GIRL, YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED.
http://www.f1online.de/f1online/index.cfm?location=search&colNo=2274&language=2&rf=1&searchkeys=518430
The woman in this gallery of posed photos looks very familiar!!!


Please stop posting stuff from blogs written by people who post on prisonplanet, a fucking 9/11 truth and illuminati eating our brains rarblgarbl website.


Also, for a person who seems to know a lot about astronomy I am amazed that you weren't able to realise the obvious.

An x-ray does not work like a camera, it does not make a negative image, it makes an xray image, which would have no information about colour, lighting or anything else, any shadows would be due to other factors.

So please I beg you, I beg you.

Complain using some sanity, they are invading your privacy, I agree.

However they are not making anything remotely close to pornographic images of everyone who goes through those machines.

Unless you jack off to ghost porn or something.

[Big Tater]

honestly, i think it's necessary. it's sad that they have to resort to these measures but if it keeps us safe then i'm all for it

[Bidet to you sir]

It's 3 years old, but the british medical journal found no increase but the BMJ made a very damning article based on the point that no comprehensive studies have been made on airport security and there is little to no evidence that this has changed.

A quick trawl through sciencedirect shows that this is still the case.

I don't doubt that maybe some of these measures do something, but there is no real proof that they do anything.

Until then I call it like I see it, they add new things to placate the populace while also adding more restrictions on us, all in the name of tightening security, when they have no idea what they're securing against.

[Geneaux486]

Even in terms of increased security I really don't see the point of doing these more extreme tests if they're just going to randomize who they do it to.  I don't think the slight chance that it might happen to them is going to deter someone who's already planning to bring down a plane.

[Bidet to you sir]

Yeah it's complete bollocks, a randomised system of security can't accomplish anything, and on top of that as I said, there must be a good god damn reason why there is barely any evidence on airport security actually being efficacious.
It's because it's not, it's just a way of looking like they're doing something to the populace, the real counterterrorism takes place before they reach the airport, if by the time the person gets to the airport they don't know who is going to carry out the attack, or even know if there is an attack, it's probably gonna succeed.

[Big Tater]

i agree with the more security, but they need to do a better job of picking out random people. a flight attendant, who is a breast cancer survivor, didn't want to do the full body scan because she didn't want any more radiation put in her body. so they took her to a private room to search her and she has a prosthetic breast. according to law, they can ask you to remove your prosthetic so they can look and touch it. poor woman was so humiliated. i mean honestly, was this really necessary?

[Bidet to you sir]

How can you do a better job picking out random people, if any "picking out" is done, it is no longer a random selection.

On top of that, as I just said, random selections make no sense even IF (and thats a big IF) security measures lower the threat made by terrorists, so yes that would be reasonable because all people would have to be scanned or patted down, and a prosthetic breast could reasonably be used to conceal a weapon.

I mean if you think "we should only scan people/pat people down that look suspicious, you're getting into the realms of racial profling by the back door, everyone should be scanned if they're going to do it, not a random group and not a selection.

Also you still haven't explained why you agree with increased security, do you just assume that adding guards and scanners actually makes things safer, because that is not neccassarily the case, and there is in fact no evidence to support that claim due to there being very limited studies on the matter.

[Big Tater]

i agree with increased security because i think more guards and scanners do make it safer. i mean this full body scan can be really effective. on the other hand, tel aviv has the most secure airport because they watch people closely. i think airports should really take that into consideration along with the full body scans

[Twilight Wolf]

a flight attendant, who is a breast cancer survivor, didn't want to do the full body scan because she didn't want any more radiation put in her body. so they took her to a private room to search her and she has a prosthetic breast. according to law, they can ask you to remove your prosthetic so they can look and touch it. poor woman was so humiliated. i mean honestly, was this really necessary?

Completely. I mean, if they let her get by, then terrorists would eventually find out and they would get some sleeper agent to have a breast implant to use as a bomb and detonate on an airplane.

[LLR]

I wish people would fact check dubious claims more often.

Hey, thats why I made the thread.  I knew I could bounce this stuff off of other people and maybe someone would know something I didn't! Mythbust away!

Please stop posting stuff from blogs written by people who post on prisonplanet, a fucking 9/11 truth and illuminati eating our brains rarblgarbl website.

My source was

http://lifehacker.com/5690402/what-you-need-to-know-about-the-new-tsa-screenings-and-gropings
bottom of the page in the comments section.  I haven't went to prisonplanet with goofball Alex Jones or Jessy Ventura in at least a year... not since the bird flu out break last year and needed a good laugh.    That article came from life hacker.   But don't discount the rest of the post though, plenty more in there from real news agencies and websites.  No blogs or prisonparanoidplanet.com.

Yeah that image is fake.

An xray would not produce an image that would show shadows.

also this.
OH YEAH THESE PICTURES ARE OF A NUDE GERMAN MODEL, DO NOT LOOK IF YOU DO NOT LIKE TO LOOK AT PERKY TITTIES ON A BANGING HOT BLONDE GIRL, YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED.
http://www.f1online.de/f1online/index.cfm?location=search&colNo=2274&language=2&rf=1&searchkeys=518430
The woman in this gallery of posed photos looks very familiar!!!

!!!!!!  Wasn't aware of that!  The original post has been modified to show that has been busted.  I thought that image did look out of place from the other xrays but I didn't know if there was a second kind of machine that I wasn't finding information on.  I figured someone else would know.  Nice work... wait... how did you...  you seem to know that program pretty well...* cough *  Odd you recognized the woman so quickly...  Zim....... sheesh!
 

Yeah that image is fake.

Also, for a person who seems to know a lot about astronomy I am amazed that you weren't able to realize [sic] the obvious.

An x-ray does not work like a camera, it does not make a negative image, it makes an xray image, which would have no information about colour, lighting or anything else, any shadows would be due to other factors.

Again, wasn't aware if there was a second machine I could not find information on.  I know about X-rays from the Sun.... not the air port... come on!

So please I beg you, I beg you.

Complain using some sanity, they are invading your privacy, I agree.

However they are not making anything remotely close to pornographic images of everyone who goes through those machines.

What of the other stories?  Plenty of other articles there.... guy who got made fun of for a dinky dong, that saw enough there to humiliate him.  The tech is there.  All I'm saying.

[Bidet to you sir]

i agree with increased security because i think more guards and scanners do make it safer. i mean this full body scan can be really effective. on the other hand, tel aviv has the most secure airport because they watch people closely. i think airports should really take that into consideration along with the full body scans

And where is the proof that more guards and more scanners actually make us safer?
Why is there almost no research on this.....

Also I spent a good hour of evidence hunting to find those nude pictures LLR.

I mean "german models standing still in different poses at different angles" is a very specific fetish, one that I don't have.

[Geneaux486]

Completely. I mean, if they let her get by, then terrorists would eventually find out and they would get some sleeper agent to have a breast implant to use as a bomb and detonate on an airplane.

Terrorists have strapped bombs to women and children in the past.  Not justifying the airport's invasive search of the flight attendant, mind you, but it's a tough situation.  The threats they're trying to prevent are very real, but the way they're going about it just isn't practical, especially considering that they randomize it.  It's like people thinking that the presence of the death penalty acts as a deterrent to crime.  

[Bidet to you sir]

Please don't derail by mentioning the death penalty.

Also the way they're going about it hasn't even been shown to work, yet again policy, an important policy at that is being decided with no real scientific or cost benefit analysis.

[Geneaux486]

It's not derailment, it's relevant to the point I was trying to make.  Please don't rent-a-mod.

[Bidet to you sir]

Sorry, I wasn't trying to rent a mod, I just think mentioning the death penalty is always a stupid thing to do in a non death penalty thread.