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Author Topic: Zelda Storyline  (Read 345 times)
Offline Shadow Link

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« on: November 06, 2008 »

Hey, I was wondering what you peeps thought about the Zelda storyline. I already have a theory, and it's a pretty good one, but others like those at gametrailers.com believe there is a split. That simply can't happen, because we all know that Oracle of Seasons comes before Oracle of Ages, when GT thought they occurred at the same time. I actually need this for a sequel I'm writing to Twilight Princess, which will hopefully kick ass, but I need other's opinions, not just mine. MORE BRAINZ IN TEH BRAIN POOL! Pleas comment! Wink
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Offline Glyphic Facade

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« #1 on: November 06, 2008 »

because we all know that Oracle of Seasons comes before Oracle of Ages,
Really? I didn't know that. I thought they occured in different timelines.
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Offline Shadow Link

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« #2 on: November 06, 2008 »

The Zelda mangas are based entirely on the games, with the exceptions of a few twists. If you read OoS before OoA, you will see the relation of Link's ancestor Raven and therefore the relation of the order of those two games. This would explain why Link has his sword the first time you play it. Note: Raven is only a manga character. He is not in the game. Though it'd be cool if he were...
Also, your postulate on OoA and OoS occurring on two differing storylines was probably formulated on the gametrailers.com theory, who thought that there would be a split from Ocarina of Time and therefore have the two games occur at the same time. However, the immediate sequel to OoT is Majora's Mask, and no other games were mentioned to be an alternate sequel. I'm basing this off of my own theory and the theory of the video games.
NOTE(to all): if you have any alternate theory to mine, tell me where you found it so that I can tell whether the source knows what they're talking about or not. If they don't, I can send you feedback. ph34r
One way to tell if they have no clue as to what they are talking about is to look at all of their data and see if it coincides with the Zelda related stuff. If it does not, then they don't know anything about Zelda. Trust me, I know what I am talking about, (this is not meant to be offensive or degrading by any stretch of the imagination) because I make sure all of my information is correct before drawing or writing anything (this would be an exception, because I need to share brain pans) But have no worries. I may be a shadow, but I am human too. I make mistakes just like you.  biggrin malon_blinky
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Offline Fairy penguin

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« #3 on: November 08, 2008 »

Manga isn't canon. But I do agree that Seasons goes first. I base my theory partially on the fact there was supposed to be a third game and the other part is that the openings were at noon and dusk. If there was a third it would most likely be dawn, and since those go in order it would make sense if Seasons (noon opener) to Ages (dusk opener).
Anyway, what is your theory on the timeline?
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Offline Shadow Link

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« #4 on: November 09, 2008 »

This is the order: MC FSA OOS OOA ALTTP OOT MM LA LOZ AOL TP WW PH
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Offline Fairy penguin

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« #5 on: November 09, 2008 »

That can't because there is no split. It has been confirmed twice. OoT Ganon was sealed in the Adult timeline then escaped later and was so bad the gods flooded Hyrule. In the child timeline Link went back and changed history so that he never collected the stones and that stuff. Then Ganon did something outrageous and was sentenced to death. That didn't work so he got sealed in the Twilight Realm.
It would also help if you could explain your timeline.
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Offline Count von EA

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« #6 on: November 09, 2008 »

TMC > OoT > MM > FS > TP > FS > ALttP > LA > Oracles
                  >OoT+7 > TWW > PH > LoZ > AoL

And I'm sure I put out a few more reasons for why Seasons comes before Ages (or the other way round, I forget) a while back.
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Offline hello_echoes

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« #7 on: November 09, 2008 »

yes, shadow link, I am curious what kind of explinations you came up with for that. Even though I agree with EA's timeline more.
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Offline Shadow Link

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« #8 on: November 10, 2008 »

Holy s**t. I've got a lot of explaining to do. Please consider, I am concocting this whole storyline theory based on what was said in the game, the art, the language, the music, the items, character design, any dungeon designs, and, of course, the mangas. Nintendo approved the mangas, so I will use those as well.
On a side note, I believe all of you have seen the Zelda retrospective on gametrailers.com, correct? They are the ones with that exact same theory of the split timeline. Not to be rude, but are you sure GT knows what they are talking about? I'll repeat my last post: MAJORA'S MASK was the ONLY known game to follow OoT, and therefore shall be the only sequel. This is where GT fails, and why I don't even bother looking at it anymore. There was no evidence that Link stayed in the future and lost his seven years in the game or the mangas. So without further adieu, here goes:
Nintendo announced not too long ago that MC was the first game, and it is obviously told from the ending of the game when Link recieves his hat from Ezlo. We have that same beginning, and then this is where we depart. You guys/girls/peeps/whatever have OoT coming up after it. Why? There is no evidence of connection between the two, unless Link magically grew up and decided to have his hair designed a different way. Also, how the hell could he just all of the sudden have a deceased mom and dad, and have the mom carry Link to the Kokiri Forest? In MC, he had a grandfather, and his parents were dead already, I'm guessing.
Fast forwarding to the end of the game, I didn't mention this game in the last post, but Four Swords should be the next one to come, before FSA. In the manga, Zelda told Link about the legend of the Four Sword, which could easily pertain to MC, but the copied Links in MC were basically ghosts of him, not freely moving about split personalities of him.
Afterward, we have this little dilemma. Link and his father meet again in Hyrule Castle, after a few months, (dad came from FSA manga), and his grandfather went back to the countryside to be with Link's grandmother, while Link grew and became a young knight of Hyrule.
Fastforwarding yet again, Link goes back to see his grandfather and ends up staying there after he figured out that his father and mother were dead. He now suffers his grandfather's lectures on knighthood and of his ancestry (he keeps pointing to the picture of his ancestor, Raven, on the wall). He runs away to take the knight's test, and is challenged by a snooty youngster, and ends up running from the guards, finding the sanctuary, and takes the test of the Triforce, being thrust into Holodrum, ending up having to battle Onox at the end.
Afterward, Link is told about the Oracle of Seasons's friend, Nayru by Impa. Veran possesses Impa and persuades Link to lead her to Nayru, in which time Nayru is possessed by Veran, and also has to battle her.
There is something funny at work here. While Onox and Veran were off defeating Link (and failing), the Mistresses Twinrova were found in the manga, at work on reviving Ganondorf! Oh noes!
After reviving Ganon, he is soon defeated, but only partially, because he comes back in ALttP. In the ALttP manga, the Ganondorf they were talking about looked very much like the OoT Ganondorf. He could have, after he was defeated again, revived and made an alliance with the King to get the Triforce and take over just to get his ass kicked again.
Right after comes MM, in which Link was traveling in search of Navi, whom he was friends with. He defeats Majora in the end, and then tries to go back to Hyrule by boat, but ends up getting caught in a storm, and wakes up on Koholint Island, where LA begins.
Link finally reached Hyrule, (LoZ) but lost all of his items in the storm, so he retrieves new items and defeats Ganon, who took over in Link's absence. AoL comes after, in which Zelda is put to sleep, and Link has to defeat Ganon and wake her up.
I still have to find a more definitive reason for this next connection. The logical reason would be that the 16 year old AoL Link would live in a village after Hyrule was remodeled, which would be Ordon Village in TP. You know how TP goes, not explaining.
The last part of this is where my story, Hero of Light, would give this storyline more sense. There was no indication of a flood at the end of TP, and HoL is supposed to be a sequel to TP, along with another game, Legion of Seterevus. LoS would mark the flood occurrence, and finalize the beginning of WW and its obvious sequel, PH.
You can read (if you haven't already) Hero of Light in the museum. It is simply titled Hero of Light, for convenience. Does this make any sense? Or do you still desire to call me a blasphemist? lol joke haha
« Last Edit: November 10, 2008 by Shadow Link » Logged

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Offline hello_echoes

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« #9 on: November 10, 2008 »

I don't understand what you mean when you say that "there is no evidence that Link stayed in the future." Of course he didn't, Zelda sent him back to the past to regain his lost time. That statment would support a split timeline, but you're obviously a linearist.

Also, OoT has a lot of evidence for it being a game coming earlier in the timeline. Tho MC explains where the hat came from, OoT also explains why Link is dressed the way he is. If you notice, all the kokiri have green hats and tunics and so it would only make sense if he was dressed like that since he was raised as one of them.

In addition, OoT is the first game where we ever see Ganondorf as a man, rather than as a pig-demon thing. I think OoT does a pretty good job of explaining how Ganondorf got on the road to becoming such a beast. If you want to take the manga's as cannon, Zelda explains that the triforce of power had run amuck and that's why he was transformed the way he was.

Also, none of the items in OoT are refered to as the 'Hero's whatever." There is no Hero's Sword, Hero's sheild, Hero's bow ect. That's because all of those items suggest that there was a powerful hero that weilded all those previously. But in OoT, that Link was the first major hero do defeat the ultimate evil in Hyrule. Not to discredit MC Link and Vaati, but Ganon > Vaati in terms of descrutive potential.
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Offline Count von EA

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« #10 on: November 10, 2008 »

On a side note, I believe all of you have seen the Zelda retrospective on gametrailers.com, correct? They are the ones with that exact same theory of the split timeline. Not to be rude, but are you sure GT knows what they are talking about?

Yes, because Miyamoto and Aonuma have confirmed the split. I disagree with everything else about the GT timeline, but that bit is hard to dispute. Both Miyamoto and Aonuma's comments can be found here. Of course, if you don't take developers' quotes into account (which seems a bit silly, they do make the games after all) then you still have to consider the fact that the games themselves leave far too much need for fan-ficcing to make a linear timeline work.

I'll repeat my last post: MAJORA'S MASK was the ONLY known game to follow OoT, and therefore shall be the only sequel.

No, Majora's Mask was the only game to directly follow the child adventures of Hero of Time Link.

This is where GT fails, and why I don't even bother looking at it anymore. There was no evidence that Link stayed in the future and lost his seven years in the game or the mangas.

We clearly saw Link sent home, true, but then in TWW we see that he left his piece of the Triforce behind, and it having to be retrieved by a new Link.

Everything else is practically a case of TL:DR, so you'll have to excuse me for that. I just had to tackle that issue.

... a linearist.

*waits for a certain someone to leap out and support his potential brother* Oh boy...
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Online Art1st4786

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« #11 on: November 11, 2008 »

Here's my theory on the order of the timeline from earliest to latest.  Though this theory seems logical based on what the developers have said and with in-game references, there are obviously some discrepancies that arise, which I will point out.  I will also not be including spin-offs (Link's Crossbow training and all of the Tingle games), and the CD-i games are NOT canon at all.

Minish Cap- We learn about the origins of the Four Sword and Vaati in this game.  Also, a while ago, Eiji Aonuma said that the Four Swords games were among the earliest in the timeline, which would put Minish Cap first by default.

Four Swords Plus- This game takes place quite some time after Minish Cap.  The seal on Vaati weakened enough to where he was able to escape on his own without the sword being pulled out.  Luckily, Vaati was able to be re-sealed for some time.

Four Swords Adventures-This game takes place some time after FS+.  After Zelda and the six maidens were kidnapped by Shadow Link, Link went to go pull out the Four Sword once more.  In the game, it said, "You know that by pulling the Four Sword that you will be releasing Vaati", indicating either that this is the same Link from the previous game, or this Link knew the history of the Four Sword ahead of time.  What's also uncertain is how Ganon became what he is in this game, though the game hints it was because of the trident he stole.

Ocarina of Time-This game explains the origins of Ganondorf and the history of the Triforce.  If this game truly takes place after Four Swords Adventures, how Ganondorf was able to escape from the Four Sword's seal is unknown.  It is because of this game that the timeline splits into two--the Adult timeline and the Child timeline.


Child Timeline


Majora's Mask-This is the direct sequel to Ocarina of Time, taking place months after the game ended.  I don't think much elaboration on this game is needed.

Twilight Princess-Twilight Princess takes place many decades after Ocarina of Time, from what the developers have said.  The land appears to have expanded further north and east if you compare the two maps.  Many references have been made in the game to Ocarina of Time, but how some things ended up the way they did--like with the location of the Temple of Time differing greatly from the two games--remain unknown.

The Legend of Zelda-Aside from the obvious lack of Lake Hylia and Kakariko Village, the map is still pretty much the same.  I know, I know, "Why are you putting this game ahead of A Link to the Past?"  Well, according to a 1998 interview Shigeru Miyamoto did, he stated "Ocarina of Time is the first story, then the original The Legend of Zelda, then Zelda II: The Adventure of Link, and finally A Link to the Past."  It would make sense, since at the end of A Link to the Past, it says that the Master Sword sleeps forever.

Adventure of Link-It's a direct sequel to The Legend of Zelda.  I don't think much else needs to be said, although the map layout is way different than the other games, with Death Mountain being in the south, then being in the north again during A Link to the past.  At the time this game was made, the developers didn't even really know that the series would become so popular like this and that there would be a timeline.

A Link to the Past-I've already stated the reasons for this being here, but there is a contradiction, if this were to be true--the Sage's Seal that was mentioned in the prologue of the game was created during the Adult Timeline.  The Master Sword was still in the game, though, and if this were to take place after Wind Waker, it would be physically impossible to have the Master Sword where it is now since it was lodged into the forehead of Ganondorf, where he remains underwater.

Link's Awakening-It's the sequel to A Link to the Past.  Not much needs to be said about this game.

Oracle of Seasons/Ages-We don't know much about the Hyrule of these games, seeing as how the action takes place in Holodrum and Labrynna.  Even though you use the "Master Sword" to defeat a revived Ganon in this game, it's not THE Master Sword, seeing as how the sword was originally called the Noble Sword, and, depending on which game you start with, you either get it in the Lost Woods or you get it from the Zora's, which wouldn't exist in the Adult Timeline after Wind Waker.

Adult Timeline


Wind Waker-In the prologue of the game, it said that the hero left on a personal journey, which, in that time, was to regain his lost childhood (thanks to Zelda).  When Ganondorf rose again, there was no hero to stop him since he was sent through time--hence the reason the Goddesses of Hyrule flooded Hyrule.

Phantom Hourglass-Link and Tetra are out searching for a new land to call Hyrule.  None of the events in the game really have anything to do with the overall series, except for the fact that we know this is a direct sequel to Wind Waker.



Obviously there are many flaws to this theory, but you have to take into consideration not only what the in-game clues are, but also what the developers have said about these games ever since the first game was released in 1986.




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Offline Shadow Link

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« #12 on: November 11, 2008 »

Omfg my brain fucking hurts now. Aonuma and Miyamoto confirmed it?! Holy SHIT! This will change like a fuck load of my story now! Oh, dear goddesses....
 Huh? Huh? Huh? Huh? Huh?
I will believe you guys, because you did give me proof, so thank you for your support. Now I shall redo this, and reconsider how the hell this popular storyline is true. ow ow ow ow ow ow....
I has brain painz. Miyamoto, whyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy? You make everything confuzzling now...
Oh, and, the Minish hats were actually similar, and why Ezlo was green was because of his robes, but I could see the Minish as being ancestors of the Kokiri, since they never really grow up...
Why PH and WW are not the last games themselves is confuzzling, but I shall redo my storyline theory now to make my stories fit:
So you guys have THE storyline, and I have my altered one:
             future OoT WW PH LoZ AoL  
MC OoT MM FS TP Hero of Light and Legion of Seterevus FSA(im assuming) ALttP LA OoS OoA
I definitely have some more work to do. At least bringing back Volvagia won't be a big deal..(story)
Oh, did you read my story in the Hylian Museum yet? It will of course be edited along the way, but the first two chapters are there. Thanks again for the direction! Oiiii..dain bramage.... l-spam
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Offline Shadow Link

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« #13 on: November 11, 2008 »

Very true, Hylian researcher. very true. dain bramage.....I thought I was going somewhere with this, but noooooooooooo. I has massive dain bramage... dry dry wacko
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Offline Shadow Link

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« #14 on: November 12, 2008 »

*waits for a certain someone to leap out and support his potential brother* Oh boy...
Potential brother? Who are you talking about? Echoes?

Oh, and please don't think I'm a noob or anything like that. I have long been a fan of Zelda, and, because I know that everything I know about Zelda is pretty much correct, as it all came from Nintendo, that is how I was able to formulate my theory. I remade the storyline based on your responses, and I see the connections in the games. I went back and looked at Twilight Princess for connections to Four Swords, and it seems they fit.
I though at first that my storyline fit, but I knew it was only my theory, and not necessarily Nintendo's storyline, so that's why I had to ask. I figured out that it was not that hard to change the settings for my stories. Everything in Hero of Light will go as planned, but there has to be some incident that marks the flooding of Hyrule and the beginning of Wind Waker. That's the part that brain damages me. I'm not necessarily a LINEARIST *ahem*, I formulated my theory because I never heard that Nintendo confirmed the split until now. GT said OUR THEORY IS,  not Nintendo's storyline is: (storyline) It also made more sense to me to have WW and PH at the end, because they would be the end result of old Hyrule's fall. I know it sounds awkward, but don't you think that, if Nintendo didn't confirm the split, that my storyline would've made sense?
Again, thanks for the help. I shall reorder all of my stories now. I'm writing stories for each of the Zelda games, including a seven book series that connects itself with Zelda through Hero of Light, and a five book series telling the tale of Shadow Link...I may be using his name a bit much. Maybe I should change my name to Richard the Undead Warlock, or Cale'Anon Vatay...(google search Looking for Group. You'll find those characters.
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Offline hello_echoes

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« #15 on: November 12, 2008 »

No, I think EA was talking about another user under the name of Super Ganny. (or something like that) He kind of made a religion out of linear POVs. Or so I gathered.
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Offline Shadow Link

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« #16 on: November 13, 2008 »

Thanks for the clarification. I can understand protecting someone like that. Those kind of people need all the help they can get. I haven't made a religion out of linearism, cause there are many side stories to my own series, so it might end up like a tree. Please don't judge me for this, but my philosophy is based almost entirely on Zelda. It's the only "religion" that I can really see as fitting to me. I can be wise, powerful, and spirited at pretty much any time, and it doesn't have any complications or fine print. Judge how you will, but don't call me an idiot. It has saved me from doing worse things than cutting myself.
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Courage is the one thing I will never toss aside.
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